| Regenerative Food Plots |
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By:
Shiloh
Date:04-Jul-24
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Anybody into it? If so, share what you do and your experiences please.
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By:
Catscratch
Date:04-Jul-24
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Been doing regenerative for 10yrs at my place, since the early 90's at my parents place.
Never till. Never fert. Plant huge diversity. Pay attention and listen to what the plots are telling ya. For instance if you have some legumes and your nitrogen levels start to rise you'll likely get some sort of grass infestation. If so go heavy with your own grasses such as millet, milo, wheat, rye, etc. Same goes in reverse.
Diversity is a big deal. Some plants will naturally dominate but only when conditions are right. Let say your spring planing doesn't show much chicory or alfalfa early. That's OK because you'll likely see those plants later in the summer when it drys out and gets hot. But you'll won't be seeing some of the clovers you had going strong in the cooler temps. Just let it work itself out.
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By:
Catscratch
Date:04-Jul-24
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Any specific questions?
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By:
Corax_latrans
Date:04-Jul-24
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JMO…. A diverse selection of native species is what these animals have evolved on, so do you want to create Habitat, or just have a shooting gallery there on your Deer Farm?
If you go Native, you’ll never have to weed, fertilize, apply insecticide, or any of that crap, and you’ll have not just Deer, but rabbits, squirrels, doves, quail, grouse, turkeys, bugs and everything else that is supposed to be living in your region…. Should cover the critters’ needs throughout the season as well….
Nature. WHO KNEW???
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By:
drycreek
Date:04-Jul-24
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I’m trying my best but not having much success at it. I planted a Green Cover mix last fall and it was great, only there were too many turnips in it. My deer won’t eat them. However, I planted sunn hemp, buckwheat, sunflowers, and iron clay peas into the standing crop this spring. Planted it heavy, fertilized 3/4ths of what the soil test called for, just like Dr. Woods suggested, then crimped it. It crimped really well and crimping didn’t hurt the crimson clover that was in it. I had lots of thatch, maybe too much, and I was disappointed in the results. It’s just about gone now and from the pics on my cell cam it has lots of weeds growing in it. I just hope it’s not pigweed but I suspect it may be. I’ve been dealing with my bride’s hip surgery but she’s doing much better so I’m going to get over there and investigate in person.
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By:
BC173
Date:04-Jul-24
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By:
Shiloh
Date:04-Jul-24
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I’ve just been thinking about trying it in some plots. It makes sense to me and we have poor soil in a lot of places. I think it would be good to build the soil back while providing food for the critters.
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By:
Shiloh
Date:04-Jul-24
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Your information on how to combat grass is interesting Catscratch. Are you crimping?
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By:
Catscratch
Date:04-Jul-24
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No, I don't crimp. I mow sometimes. As far as terminating grasses that I plant I just let them finish their life cycles. Milo and millet heads get taken care of by the critters. When I plant wheat I use awnless which the deer love once it's ripened. Usually some stuff growing under them just waiting for sunlight to explode; clovers, beans, chicory, vetches, alfalfa, pumpkins, and a bunch of natives if you time things right.
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By:
Catscratch
Date:04-Jul-24
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Drycreek, you have the deck stacked against you with the heat, dry, pigs, etc.
Good luck to your wife!
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By:
Shiloh
Date:05-Jul-24
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I planted awnless wheat and crimson clover in my fall plots last year. The deer enjoyed the wheat this spring once it headed out. Do y’all buy the pre mix seed or just mix your own?
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By:
Catscratch
Date:05-Jul-24
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I mix my own.
Corax, your reply to his question of personal experience in regenerative farming is interesting. It sounds like you're describing early successional habitat rather than regenerative plotting, but in my opinion there is a ton of similarities and overlap between the two. How much of your land do you keep in early succession vs older growth? Do you do it with burn management, soil disturbance, or herbicide applications? How much of your land is in production? Is it cattle, ag crops, logging? If you do have forest how much releasing are you doing? And honestly in a discussion like this it kind of matters how much land you own and manage. For perspective 10 acres is way different than 800 and depending on neighbors likely takes a different approach. Where do you sit on that category?
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By:
Shiloh
Date:05-Jul-24
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Well what you say above is a large portion of my thoughts. We have a large block of land. We have a lot of pine plantation in varying stages of growth as well as good pockets of mast bearing hardwoods. We do a lot of burning in varying pine stands. In the middle of the place we have 500 acres of 3yo Longleaf that we have burned for the last two years. There are thousands of tons of native browse in these stands. This all has me asking the question what good are plots even gonna do. We have about 40 acres of plots of various size soon to be about 52 acres with a new plot coming on. Almost feel like I should do a few kill plots for the fall and just manage the native vegetation. I stress over not having a yearly plan for plots and admit that I have paralysis by analysis!!!
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By:
Catscratch
Date:05-Jul-24
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Sounds like a great setup! It's going to be hard to beat your burns for nutrition during the spring and summer. Depending on stem count of woody browse there might be quite a bit there for them in the winter too. I suppose you need to decide if your plots are there to fill nutritional gaps, or to attract deer during hunting season. That answer will probably dictate what you should do. I know a guy in the south who loves the alyce clover and deer vetch mix in conjuction with his native stuff. Your winter plots could be as easy as a wheat/rye/iron peas mix.
Keep us up to date on what you end up doing.
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By:
olddogrib
Date:05-Jul-24
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Does this mean that Unca Joe will soon be appointing a Czar of "Diversity, Equity and Inclusion of Soil"?
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By:
Shiloh
Date:05-Jul-24
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Yep……lots to decide, but good problem!! I’m more interested in turkeys than deer, so that’s a part of the puzzle as well. Usually good turkey/quail habitat equals good deer habitat.
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By:
Catscratch
Date:05-Jul-24
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I do a lot of land management for quail. LOVE QUAIL! I'd give up every turkey in KS to get good numbers of quail and Prairie Chickens back.
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Date:05-Jul-24
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That will work until the snow piles up, then the deer will be heading to standing crops. If there are no standing crops they will head to picked fields. I’ve got 30 acres of natural diverse food but added 10 acres of standing grain when the blizzards hit
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By:
Shiloh
Date:05-Jul-24
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We don’t have much snow pile up here in MS Iowa Booner!!
Catscratch we have a lot of quail here now. I went on my first wild hunt this year. You could go out in the morning this time of year and whistle up a limit pretty easily.
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By:
Catscratch
Date:05-Jul-24
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Color me jealous!!!
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By:
Acres4wildlife
Date:06-Jul-24
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I have been dabbling with the "Woods System" for a few years here in mid-Missouri. For wildlife, I think it's great. Everything from insects to birds to deer, derives some benefit from it. Corn, soybeans, or stands of pure clover are good and have their place, but I've observed that these plots, for lack of a better description, are too clean. There is no vegetative diversity in them. I'd much rather see a "weedy" 100 bushel per acre corn field than a clean 200 bushel per acre one. Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
To be honest, I've had mixed results. The soil is a very tight heavy clay. My fall plots of cereal rye, turnips, crimson clover, etc, etc., do very well. My 8 species spring planting on the other hand has struggled with weed and grass competition. The deer eat everything off as fast as it grows as well, haha. I no-till everything but do not have a crimper. I use my 3 point tiller with the pto disengaged. I'm thinking that I'm not getting the rye terminated very well for one thing. I plan to stay with this because of the time and money savings of not making multiple trips over the field, herbicides, soil compaction, etc. I'm probably going to terminate what is growing next month and drill the fall blend. Next spring, I'll plan to drill the blend but spend some money on a better crimper and fertilizer .
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By:
Shiloh
Date:06-Jul-24
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Good honest info! I’ve heard that you have to be patient with it and give it time to work. Possibly use some chemicals to allow plantings to get ahead of weeds, etc, etc…….No one size fits all.
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By:
Beendare
Date:06-Jul-24
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Dumb question; What are the specific varieties that regenerate? Is there a website that lists these specifics?
I'm sure it's different for part shade. Will Clover regrow?
I am assuming the seed head varieties like Milo will reseed themselves.....
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By:
Shiloh
Date:06-Jul-24
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I don’t think that’s what regenerative really means in this instance beendare. Basically people are planting spring mixes and then fall mix into the spring mix and crimping the previous seasons mix and vice versa. This keeps you from ever tilling the soil and the growth that is terminated rots and is used in building the soil back up.
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By:
Acres4wildlife
Date:06-Jul-24
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IMO you are regenerating the soil. It all begins there. Most of what is planted are annuals so they will not reseed themselves. Tillage "kills" the soil meaning it disrupts the life cycles of the microorganisms, fungi, etc. In college we were told it takes 500 years to build an inch of topsoil. This is not true. There is a lot of good information on this subject on YouTube, Grant Woods at Growing Deer TV is one. He's working with very rocky soil in the Ozarks and he's actually building soil. Another is Gabe Brown. He's a farmer from N. Dakota that has some very interesting information. I'm not saying this is the only way to do plots but I believe there's something to it. I do use Tillage to develop fire breaks and to set back fescue and other cool season grasses without herbicides. It won't work if your attitude isn't open minded to doing things differently.
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By:
Catscratch
Date:06-Jul-24
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What they said Beendare, it's about building healthy soil. I even go so far as to put cattle on my plots once in a while to take advantage of the mutualism, and add some saliva to the system.
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By:
Catscratch
Date:13-Jul-24
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Back To The Top. Hoping corax can fill in the blanks on some of the questions I've got for him.
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By:
Shiloh
Date:13-Jul-24
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I am planning to burn my plots off this fall in preparation for planting in lieu of crimping. Got a guy that I’m gonna work with for a few years to help guide me. I’ll keep you guys posted.
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By:
t-roy
Date:13-Jul-24
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Be patient, Catscratch. You don’t just sit down and write a novel in a few days (most guys don’t, anyway) He’s probably proofreading it right now…
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By:
Catscratch
Date:14-Jul-24
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Thanks for the update Shiloh! Congrats on finding a mentor to guide you. Regenerative farming is easy, but not easy at the same time. I think you'll enjoy the endeavor.
T-roy, I'm starting to have doubts that he is going to answer the questions. Seems likely he came onto a thread for a guy asking for information from people with experience, and gave answers while having no experience. Some people are like that.
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By:
Stressless
Date:15-Jul-24
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Albert, a dude over on the TOO forum has made a blog about his work to improve soils via No-Till (regenerative) he does pod-casts and believes in it to the point he even started his own seed business a year ago. All the science behind why and how it works for wildlife.
Link is in the bar - worth the visit for in depth gouge on on this topic.
https://theohiooutdoors.com/threads/no-till-food-plots-so-easy.27104/#post-767661
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By:
drycreek
Date:15-Jul-24
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To update my plot, I visited in person and was greeted with a bunch of pigweed. I thought sure there would be none because I didn’t till. I was wrong. I guess there was already plenty of seed on the ground because I didn’t catch it quickly enough last year. Good news is, the seed was green and I hit it with gly early the next morning. I don’t think the seeds will be viable but we will see. I got a great kill from the looks of this picture.
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By:
Catscratch
Date:15-Jul-24
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You're lucky that gly can kill your pigweed. Our just laughs at gly. Deer love it though!
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By:
Stressless
Date:15-Jul-24
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Funny Jeffro put this out about a week ago.
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By:
Smtn10PT
Date:06-Aug-24
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I planted some of the Green Cover fall release in a small plot last year (1/4) Acre. Had a good crop of rye and clovers come up this spring. Sprayed that plot and a larger 2-acre plot, brush hogged and no tilled in the summer release blend. Fairly good results, i found all the plants in the blend except for sunflowers. Sorghum came up nicely and is forming seed heads. I am having the fall release blend tilled right into the standing crop this week. I found a local seed supplier and had them mix the seed for a pretty good cost savings over the Green Cover blend.
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By:
Smtn10PT
Date:06-Aug-24
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I will add photos of the fall blend as it hopefully comes in
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By:
Shiloh
Date:06-Aug-24
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That’s awesome!! I would think at some point in the near future the deer would come in and clean up the heads on the sorghum??
I planted a dove mix in the early summer and it has done well, but the deer destroyed the sunflowers. Sesame, sorghum and millet have all done pretty well.
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By:
Smtn10PT
Date:06-Aug-24
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I guess I'll find out. I am not aware of it being grown in this immediate area so it may take them some time to figure it out.
