Bowsite.com

Hunter Comments

DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY WITH NEW MEXICO HUNTING ADVENTURES!!!

I met Vince Vigil, owner of New Mexico Hunting Adventures, in September 2022 in the Yukon. We were both Moose hunting with Jim Shockeys Rogue River Outfitters. This was my return hunt after a non-successful hunt in 2019. We had arrived early and were staying at the same Hotel in Whitehorse . We spent some time together along with other Rogue River Hunters seeing the town and going to breakfast and dinner prior to our Bush Flight out to our respective camps. From what I understand Vince’s wife was unable to make it for some reason? I heard the reason but will not elaborate in a public setting. Since his wife was unable to make it, the outfitter ended up putting Vince and myself in the same camp. This usually doesn’t happen on a Moose hunt but whatever, we dealt with hit. We would be spending the next 10 days together in the bush. On the third day I harvested my Moose. Vince and his guide were on their way back to camp and knew the mountain where we were stalking the moose and were fortunate enough to witness my guide and I taking the moose. Vince and his guide came to the kill site and Vince said they would help clean the moose if we agreed to help him find a Moose for the remainder of my hunt. My guide said sure, since we were going to be grizzly hunting anyway what’s the big deal of letting them know we spotted a Moose somewhere? Two hours later the moose was cleaned and we headed to camp. The next morning at Breakfast everybody was getting ready to go out and my guide said we are going to prep our moose for the flight out and then off to Grizzly hunting. Vince pointed his fork at my guide and says “what happened to you helping me find a moose if I helped you clean your moose?” My guide said yes if we spot one we will let you know. Vince said that’s not what we agreed to. I said yes it was and its not the guides decision its mine since I paid for the hunt. Keep in mind these hunts are $25,000 hunts and I was on my second hunt in the past 3 years. Multiple game species Moose, Grizzly, Wolf etc. Apparently, Vince thought for his 2 hours of help we would follow him and his guide around for the next 6 days glassing side by side with them ??? This was our first little riff. We somewhat did and Vince got his moose on the last day. By the end of the hunt, I felt like we created a bond as hunting colleagues and I told Vince I was going to come hunt a Mountain Lion with him at his outfitting business. Throughout this hunt Vince would tell me what the outfitter should be doing and how Rogue River was selling hunts off of Jim Shockeys name alone and what they could be doing to improve. To me it was just hunting and the way it goes but as the hunt went on he had me believing as well. Now back in the States reflecting on both my hunts with Rogue River I believe they are a top-notch operation and it is just hunting- The moose were tough to find. I was thinking man Vince must have a really nice operation going and couldn’t wait to get out on a Mountain Lion hunt with him. I text him about a month or so after we got back and said “hey are we gonna chase a cat or what”? He said send me a deposit and we’ll get you a spot. I sent him the deposit and we went back and forth on dates. Finally, we agreed on dates and he sent me an invoice. The invoice was for $6000 but his website said $5500? red flag but I thought with his kind of operation I was willing to pay a little more, after all you get what you pay for supposedly? I sent the final payment and flew to New Mexico on the day we had arranged. I assumed someone would contact me about where I was going since they had my flight info? Nope I had to call Vince and say “Hey I’m here now what “? His comment was “I thought you were coming next week”? Red Flag, Owner doesn’t even know when his hunters are showing up. He told me to head north and his guide Isaiah would call me, which he did, and gave me directions to his house. There was another Mountain Lion Hunter and his dad at Isaiah’s house. Isaiah showed me to my room which was a small 8’x9’ or so room with little bed and a bunch of storage boxes I believe is his little daughter’s room. Whatever I was there for the hunt. That night we had takeout Pizza for dinner, Red Flag. If your guide is feeding you take out pizza, he’s not wanting to spend money on you for real meals and its cheap for him. That night I meet my guide JP, Isaiah would be guiding the other hunter and dad. Plans were set and they said we will be getting ready at 4:00AM. At 4:00 AM the next morning I’m up ready and in the kitchen. I waited, waited, nothing so I made coffee myself. A bit later my guide JP shows up gets our houndsman and the dogs ready off we go. Stop at the gas station to get snacks for the day then we drove around public land looking for tracks. No lion tracks all day, that evening we head back to Isaiah’s house where a pot of soup was there for dinner. Literally just a pot of soup – red flag. During the day I had showed my guide JP a picture of my first archery Elk I took on the last day of my hunt a few years earlier which was just a 6x6 satellite bull. That night JP says Wayne show Isaiah your Elk which I did and Isaiah says “you would never shoot a bull like that here I wouldn’t let you” sensing the awkwardness of the moment in front of everyone my guide JP says “did you mount it” and I said “yes its hanging above the fireplace in my house”. Red Flag – what’s the point of insulting your hunter when it wouldn’t have changed anything anyway? I was proud of the elk so what’s it matter? The next morning 4AM again I’m the only one up so I make a pot of coffee for everyone and wait. My guide JP gets there we get the dogs ready and go to a new spot and find some tracks and put the dogs out. Pretty much off and on all day the dogs ran the tracks but never treed anything. Back that afternoon and Isaiah’s wife cooks up a nice dinner. Third morning is the weekend same thing 4AM I’m up making coffee this time Isaias wife is up making breakfast sandwiches for us to take with us – nice. We go back to the same spot and try to pick up the same cat from the night before but was unsuccessful in treeing it. The guide JP and the houndsman was trying but again its hunting. We climbed mountains and me with a sinus infection probably wasn’t in the best condition but still climbed to the top of the mountain right along with them, not nearly as fast lol. We ended up seeing a group of Rocky Mountain Sheep with some descent rams, high light of the day. On the way home I told my guides “We might not have treed a cat today but what a great day it was seeing the sheep that was a first for me” That night at Isaiah’s house I asked the other hunter why the outfitter didn’t have cat tracks located prior to us getting there and marked so we didn’t waste time looking every day? He informed me that Isaiah told him a cat would range 80 miles so the track we see today the cat could me 10 miles away the next day which was news to me so I said scratch that idea then. I then asked if they knew if anyone was out at night looking for tracks and letting the guides know the next morning and he said no he didn’t think anyone was doing that. I told him that was also something Vince told me his operation did which apparently was a lie- red flag. Whatever I went to bed and figured we would give it a try again tomorrow. Next morning, day 4, guess who’s is up making coffee at 4AM? yes me. Our houndsman Jimmy gets up and I go with him and JP outside to get the dogs ready. I’m standing at the corral gate making sure the dogs don’t get out drinking my coffee. Jimmy and JP are loading up the dogs and putting collars on them with the truck running and lights in my eyes, I hear some yell “Wayne do we have a problem” or so I thought I turned around and don’t see anyone. Again, I hear someone yell “Wayne do we have a problem because I will send your ass home right now” !!. This time my guides hear it as well and I see their headlights shine behind me to my right and I notice its Isaiah with his hands in his pocket all bowed up in an aggressive manner. A little confused I say “excuse me” he says again do we have a problem because I will send your ass home right now I don’t care “. I said what are you talking about and he tells me that the hunters told him last night that I was unhappy with the hunt. He then said “this aint Elk hunting we aint sitting at a water hole waiting for an Elk to show up we are working our asses off for you”. I said “I never told anyone I was unhappy and as matter of fact I told my guides I really enjoyed the hunt yesterday and how good of a day it was seeing the Sheep”. He said you asked them if we were out at night marking cat tracks with GPS? We don’t do that. I said well that is what your owner Vince told me when he was selling me on this hunt. He said if you want to know something you come ask me. I said no one knows who you are until they get here. He says again” if you got a problem, you come see me” and I said “if I did I would ”. He yells again “you are not to talk to the other hunters the rest of this hunt or this hunt will be over and I will send your ass home I don’t care”. At this point I know the hunt is over so I set my coffee down and said “yes I do have a problem and its with you mother f%$#@r you aint coming out here screaming at me like I’m someone’s b%$#h and if you want to do something about it then do it”. At this point Isaiah changed his tune and took a couple steps back so I asked again “do you want to do something about it our just run your mouth “? Isaiah turned and went back into the house. I immediately followed him in but he was nowhere to be found. You can literally see the kitchen, nook and living room in this small house from the door so I assumed he was in his bedroom. I said out loud “really” but he didn’t respond. I gathered my clothes and gear and went to my rental car. I walked over to both of my guides and gave them half of their tip since we only completed half the hunt and this issue had nothing to do with them . Both of them were just as confused as I was. I drove to Albuquerque and along the way called Vince Vigil but no response. I text him and told him there was an altercation this morning to talk to his guides JP and Jimmy first and don’t just take Isaiah’s side. The next day Vince text me and said he’s been with his wife who wasn’t feeling well. He said he gets all the facts to see what happened. A week goes by and I don’t hear from him so I text Vince and asked how his wife was and he says he will call me in a couple of days which would be Friday. I text him back “I look forward to hearing from you Friday”. That has now been over a month and no response from Vince after he knows his head guide came out and aggressively confronted one of his hunters for no reason. So much for a first-class operation. New Mexico Hunting Adventure Management is a Joke. The owner doesn’t even respond to his own emails. It looks like its from Vince but it’s monitored by his staff. Once he has your money he obviously doesn’t care. Heck his head guide never even got up one morning to see us off he just slept in every morning in the same house. This is the first time I’ve publicly posted a review of an outfitter. I do it for the mechanic, carpenter bartender etc that saves a $100/ week to put towards a trip like this that might be a once in a lifetime hunt and then gets treated like this. I’ve been pretty fortunate I hunt all over the country all the time with Outfitters but what about the hunter that really has to sacrifice to make it happen and then gets belittled by the head guide and the owner doesn’t even care enough to make it right? This is just a heads up

Was the outfitter notified of problems? - YES

Outfitter's Response

I've been in this game a very long time. I'm not saying that we're a perfect operation, but nobody is perfect. I will tell you we bust our butts for all our clients. This novel that Wayne wrote is absurd and full of exaggerations. I understand that we can't make every customer happy and that confusions happens from time to time from what the information the hunter understands to what was actually told to them. This is the case on this hunt. What Wayne didn’t mention, was he was supposed to come a week earlier when the snow conditions were very good, and all our areas were open, and the quotas weren't met yet. He failed to show up because he said his wife would be mad at him and called her names, because he could stand up for himself. He had to be home New Year’s Eve. He made excuses basically. But I am learning this is what Wayne does, he blames other people and doesn't take accountability for himself. So, we rescheduled him for the week after, I explained to him that snow conditions could change, and quotas could change but the week he was supposed to come was going to be perfect because it was the first good snow, we were going to receive thus far the whole season and every area was still open statewide. By the time Wayne showed up snow conditions dwindle but the guides continue to work hard to ensure Wayne would have a successful hunt. In fact, if Wayne would have stayed for the duration of his hunt, he would have killed a mountain lion. The morning he left; the guides treed 2 cats. All that nonsense about him calling my guide names and puffing up his chest trying to make my guide look cowardly are lies!! All Wayne is trying to make himself out to be this prestigious hunter when in fact Wayne is no hunter at all. Wayne is just what we call a killer. He doesn't understand what it takes to have a good hunt and embrace the experience. He doesn't understand that conditions change, and things may take hard work. He is so focused on the kill. In fact, I had already talked to my guide before Wayne showed up and said because of the snow conditions if Wayne didn't kill, we were going to bring him back for another trip if need be. This is how much pride we take in the work we do and the product we sell. I NEVER lie to hunters either, I don’t have to! We did have two different guides looking for tracks around the state with the dwindling snow conditions to ensure success. We want all our mountain lion hunters to have success. Wayne isn't as cool-headed or what we call around here a “Billy Bad Ass" as he’s making himself out to be on this review. In fact, if Wayne would have just gone to my head guide and asked him specific questions that he had, instead of talking shit to the other hunters and guides, this situation would have never arisen. My guide only approached him, and asked if he had a problem because from what he was hearing from my other guides, other hunters and our cook who was overhearing everything. Wayne decision to leave was his own, nobody kicked him out of camp. He gave up on his hunt he paid for we didn’t give up on him.

Lastly, this is the bad thing about these review forums, they allow people to get personal. Since Wayne got personal and presumes to know my life and my relationship status, my guides relationship status and what he should or shouldn’t say or what he thinks he knows, well, I am going to talk about things he says about his wife to completely disrespect to her to get pity points, I guess. I knew this man had bad character from the trip to the Yukon. The way he talked about his wife. The way he disrespected his wife’s dignity in a certain manner. It is nobody’s business to share such private details or one’s personal life. I was baffled when he was telling me and the guides intimate/private details about his wife at the dinner table of all places. Lastly, our tiff in the Yukon came from an agreement and a handshake I made with Wayne saying we would help each other on this hunt and at his first opportunity he had to help, all he could think about was himself and chasing a little 250-pound grizzly. This is how I know this guy isn’t a real hunter. It wasn’t about 2 hours, it's about the word you give another man when you in the middle of nowhere just trying to survive. Embracing the brotherhood of hunting and nature. I remember specifically Wayne telling me, why are we skinny my moose that's the guide's job. This is his mentality; he just doesn't get it!!