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Cattle Good or Bad?
Habitat Improvement
Messages posted to thread:
APauls 15-Oct-18
APauls 15-Oct-18
Huntcell 15-Oct-18
BigOzzie 15-Oct-18
TrapperKayak 15-Oct-18
APauls 15-Oct-18
Timbrhuntr 15-Oct-18
Ben 15-Oct-18
LKH 15-Oct-18
Charlie Rehor 15-Oct-18
Kodiak 15-Oct-18
Buskill 15-Oct-18
Bake 15-Oct-18
TD 15-Oct-18
sureshot 15-Oct-18
WV Mountaineer 15-Oct-18
Franzen 15-Oct-18
EmbryOklahoma 15-Oct-18
orionsbrother 15-Oct-18
MK111 15-Oct-18
GLP 15-Oct-18
Elkhorn 15-Oct-18
LINK 15-Oct-18
hawkeye in PA 15-Oct-18
Deerplotter 15-Oct-18
Bake 15-Oct-18
StickFlicker 15-Oct-18
Missouribreaks 15-Oct-18
Lost Arra 15-Oct-18
flyingbrass 15-Oct-18
APauls 15-Oct-18
Elkhorn 15-Oct-18
Salagi 15-Oct-18
LKH 15-Oct-18
APauls 15-Oct-18
Bowriter 16-Oct-18
midwest 16-Oct-18


By: APauls
Date:15-Oct-18

APauls's MOBILE embedded Photo

Topic is general - do you think having part of your land with cattle on it is bad? I bought a piece of land this spring. I have attached some pictures. Total is 240 acres. The previous owner rented space out to cattle on the southern piece below the fenceline you can see that runs kind of WNW. SO the cattle run over 140 acres of the 240. From my experience cattle isn't a great thing for deer. As in they don't like to run together. I let the guy continue to graze this year, because as a new neighbour in the area I don't want to put the guy out. I'm in it for the long haul so getting along with my neighbours more important than year 1.

The land that looks like field was supposedly farmed a number of years back but is fairly rocky. Ideally I'd work a deal with a local farmer so that he can put crop in rent free. Alfalfa or something. The green areas in my piece are areas I'd like to plant something if I can if I don't have a local farmer come in, so it would be me with limited time and equipment. Prob something like clover or alfalfa.

But my main question is in regards to grazed land. Assuming this piece is yours do you allow grazing? The grazing does keep some growth down so that the entire area isn't overgrown so that maybe it can be planted in the future, but besides that I don't see any benefits to it. It's also over half my piece. I wouldn't want to ask the guy to run all new fences just to graze on a small piece, and the rent he pays to put cattle there is pretty inconsequential so losing the rent isn't a big deal. It's a few hundred bucks. Just looking to hear opinions on what others have experienced.

By: APauls
Date:15-Oct-18

APauls's MOBILE embedded Photo

More of a closeup, where you can also see a small potential future plot on the northern edge. The apple symbols are there for a section of oaks that I hope drop acorns, none this year in a super dry year.

Date:15-Oct-18

The cattle go. Now a buffalo or two would be a nice touch but impractical. Don’t need no stinking, annoying, unsightly, dum cattle. See no benefit for your current and future enjoyment of your land. Unless of course you could whack a few as they are quite tasty.

Date:15-Oct-18

depending on the density of your timber, cattle can be a good thing eating brush and causing new understory growth, that the deer thrive on. If the wolves didn't harass them so much, I would lease my place for cattle, but, the wolves run them through the fences and there is no neighbor, they just wander on forest service land until they can be found and returned. In the end it was not worth the effort, for the rancher.

oz

Date:15-Oct-18

A few beefers can't hurt much, and they make great steaks if you miss your 'game'.

By: APauls
Date:15-Oct-18

Understory is very lush and thick where there are no cattle. He doesn't have a pile of cattle in there so it isn't totally grazed off where they are in. Still some smaller growth in there. On a side note, running cameras since spring I am convinced that not a single buck lives on the piece which is fine, they will come, but curious of the cattle play a part in that. I've got does, so bucks will come.

Date:15-Oct-18

I am certainly no expert but I have hunted game in Kansas, Kentucky, Nebraska, New Mexico, Texas, Michigan and Montana on properties that all had cattle and all had lots of game. The only problem I ever had was they are curious and will pull down blinds and knock over decoys !

By: Ben
Date:15-Oct-18

I have run cattle on my place for the last 30 years and deer and turkey hunt on it every year. I've seen this topic over and over. Some will say how terrible cattle are. If not over grazed (which is your call as well as when they can come in and go out for the year) they are an attribute. Just Saturday I hunted one of my fields with deer walking thru the cows while they grazed. In the winter when I bring them up by the barn for haying and feed the deer will come to the barnyard area. I've never had a problem with both being on the same farm.

By: LKH
Date:15-Oct-18

I put about 48 acres in Riparian CRP here in central Montana. The contract ran 15 years and at the end I took the land out. Without some sort of grazing or farming it just got overgrown with less new growth each year. The dead stuff just layered up. It looks like the area the cattle graze would stay open??

What would grow there?

Do you have any way to cut or manage unwanted growth?

Can you get the guy back if you find you've made a mistake?

You have to answer these before you can make a decision.

Date:15-Oct-18

When I see cattle on bordering property I smile. When deer have a choice of being around cattle or not it will be not!

Date:15-Oct-18

Cattle bad.

Date:15-Oct-18

In Virginia , at least , I’ve never seen cattle be a problem . They keep the briars beat down . The very best places in my county to deer hunt are all cattle farms .

By: Bake
Date:15-Oct-18

I hate 'em. Cattle graze out or stomp out the little forbs and small things that deer love to eat. I could go on and on. But I won't.

If it was my place, and the cattle didn't contribute substantially to paying for it. . . . then they would go. I'd rather brush hog or burn areas that get out of control than deal with cattle

Glad to hear you got a place. I knew you'd been looking. Enjoy it! I'm jealous :)

By: TD
Date:15-Oct-18

Depends. These are axis rather than whitetails but share many traits. We have access to a couple places that if there are no cattle in there knocking the jungle back the places are just unhuntable, even if the deer are in there. The more open areas, pastures and such the deer definitely would rather not hang with the cattle. I think (at least with these axis) there is just too much extra motion and noise for them. They live with one foot in a nervous breakdown as it is.

Perfect scenario is hunting them a couple weeks after they've moved the cattle off.

Date:15-Oct-18

The problem is not cattle, but rather the way most people manage their cattle operation. If the cattle are fenced out of the timber and the grazing is rotational rather than continuous it doesn't seem to bother the deer. The problem is that most cattle are left to run a whole pasture continuously grazing it down to the dirt eliminating any cover or food for the deer.

Date:15-Oct-18

I don’t like hunting around them. I’ve often seen them in the same fields as deer but, they make a mess of the woods when shared. Are curious and simply a problem as far as I’m concerned. I’d do as you say, find a share cropper and boot the bovine.

Date:15-Oct-18

Franzen's embedded Photo

If it were me, I would try to work out a deal to put in the two fences I drew in, and still get some income from running cattle on about the southern 90/100 acres. The former pasture will become great habitat I think, and you will have deer on that transition. If you really want the food source (clover/alfalfa) and not any income, then by all means work out the deal with the other farmer. Bottom line, for me cattle are not a nuisance, but as sureshot said, the grazing management plays an important role.

Date:15-Oct-18

Adam, when the property I hunted had cattle, it was helpful, somewhat. Helpful because the deer would use the timber for the majority of their movements. That was beneficial to me as a bowhunter. Now that we don't have cattle, the deer definitely use field edges more and also traipse right across the grown up fields. This does make it a little more difficult to bottleneck them. As others have mentioned, they do keep the browse down. The plus without the cattle is they don't end up walking around my stand at prime time and ruining a hunt. My two cents.

Date:15-Oct-18

I've had those "one teat" cows get moved into a different pasture by the leasing rancher and then surprise me when I've been sneaking into my stand in the dark. I don't like them. They seem to be anti-social.

By: MK111
Date:15-Oct-18

I've had cattle on my farm for 27 yrs with no problem. IMHO the people against cattle are the people who don't have cattle. Review your own property and manage it for yourself as no one else can advise you properly from a far.

By: GLP
Date:15-Oct-18

Why not have the farmer use it for grazing in June through August! My neighbor that lets me hunt does this. And it works good for him. Greg

Date:15-Oct-18

I bought a property that previously had cattle. 90% of the deer passed through my property but did not live there or bed. Hunting was ok and I shot a few nice bucks. It grew back very thick and now many deer live and bed on my property. Which I like better, but I have to adjust my setups to the change. I guess the biggest concern I would have is how hard the neighbours hunt, that border your property and will have the deer bedding there? My neighbours that had the bedding cover did not hunt. I do enjoy deer bedding and living on my property rather the just passing through. It’s simply better habitat. I do some small clear cuts which help.

By: LINK
Date:15-Oct-18

As some have said it just kinda depends on what your goals are. If you think 140 acres of bedding area would help your cause the cattle need to go. If it was mine I’d get rid of the cattle and let it grow up and maybe break 10 acres of it out for did plots.

Date:15-Oct-18

I have permission to bow hunt a cattle farm after I confirmed I could tell the difference between a cow and a deer. Anyhow there is a really nice buck that hangs out by the "wire" and has no problem escaping inside the fence and standing with the cows. Have had them mess me up on BLM land in CO. though.

Date:15-Oct-18

You are better off to turn it back to natural Forage and manage it by cutting etc. Making some strategic food plots out of parts of the 140 you will be way further ahead and leave the rest go for bedding. No benefit in giving that much acreage up for grazing.

By: Bake
Date:15-Oct-18

I should have prefaced my remarks. The main farm I hunt has cattle, which definitely biases me against them. Fortunately they are fenced off of the main timber that I hunt.

My whole family raises cattle. I hate them on a personal level. At one time, my father ran over a hundred head. When I moved back home, I had to help with them. It took 2 hours every night to feed hay throughout the winter months. 5 months of the year. I did it 3 or 4 nights a week. Hated it. Would have rather been hunting with that time. And he always wanted to have our big cattle roundup and work fest the first weekend of November. Uh, NO!! Fortunately, he got tired of the work too, as that is not his main source of income, and about 6 or 7 years ago he sold out, and converted to row crops. Thank goodness.

Besides the work, a stupid cow is about as dangerous as it gets. They're so big and dumb they'll hurt you without meaning to. Fortunately, I was never hurt, but I can't count family members on both hands that have had broken bones or stitches because of cattle (my father has had 3 or 4 incidents just himself).

So I hate cattle for many reasons that have nothing at all to do with hunting. Cattle are fun as hell to chase on a horse, and they're delicious, but that's as far as it goes.

Date:15-Oct-18

Is he maintaining water sources that deer might use and that might eventually become non-functional if he wasn't maintaining them for cattle?

Date:15-Oct-18

On smaller parcels such as this I would not allow cattle. IMO, it is more important to have cover and food, cattle consume both. On larger western pastures cattle and deer coexist much better as rugged terrain oftentimes provides much of the cover, and cattle density is generally much less. Not always, but in general.

Date:15-Oct-18

If the grazing is managed well then cattle don't really affect the deer BUT if the deer hunting is slow I find it convenient to blame the cattle.

Date:15-Oct-18

cattle makes mature whitetails nervous. I don't think they bother elk and mule deer though.

By: APauls
Date:15-Oct-18

Land butts up to a river, so water is not a problem.

Date:15-Oct-18

Do people hunt along the property boundary, river? If so they will get a lot of the deer. Your pasture is a travel corridor. I used to hunt my fence line that crossed from my pasture to my neighbours bedding cover and did well. Now that it’s grown up and out of pasture, they don’t cross the fence often. There are better hunting spots.

By: Salagi
Date:15-Oct-18

I grew up around cattle back when deer were scarce and never had them cause a problem. In fact, watching the cows often alerted me to deer. ;)

Several in my family now hunt a farm of several hundred acres that the cattle roam over freely. In the past 25 years we have killed well over 100 deer off that place with 1/3 to 1/2 being bucks, (I'd have to check the record we keep to get the exact number and most have been rifle/muzzleloader kills). That's with 5 - 8 hunting each year, (4 generations sometimes which is pretty neat). The biggest problem with the cows is making sure when you shoot that there are no cows behind the deer. It's almost a given that the cows will be around one of us on any given day, sometimes roaming through the woods from field to field to make sure they bother all of us. ;)

By: LKH
Date:15-Oct-18

An option could be to have him split the pasture into 3-4 parcels. what this does is allow for intensive grazing over shorter periods. The cattle hammer the area for a while but then it has longer to grow back. The deer will be active in the rested areas after a few weeks.

See this a lot on western pastures with elk. If there is adequate moisture the elk will move in after a few weeks to access the new growth without putting up with rank growth. This would allow you to pick which pasture was rested during hunting season.

By: APauls
Date:15-Oct-18

No one hunts around my pieces and no one hunts the river.

But I lucked out and got in touch with a local farmer who is real game to do a crop share and is game to do whatever I want. Real excited to meet him there and look it over. Might have the best of both worlds :)

Date:16-Oct-18

If the cattle have been there for some time, the deer avoid them to some degree but quickly learn to ignore them. Last Friday, I saw 11 deer in 40-minutes, killed one. Had cattle in sight the entire time. The deer do not appear to "mix" with the cattle-hurts their smelling- but are certainly not spooked by them.

Date:16-Oct-18

I would be thinking about all the things I could do with that piece the cattle use. Tree plantings, plots, bedding cover, creating funnels, etc.


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