| Where are you in your wildlife program? |
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By:
nutritionist
Date:19-Jan-17
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I just got back from the ATA show in Indianapolis and had some really interesting conversations the past couple days. It lead to this topic. Where are you at today in your wildlife program. I look at this food plotting, deer mineral, habitat work and stand placement as a PROGRAM. I look at each of your situations individually as no 2 people have all the same factors coming into play.
Let me compare stages in wildlife food plotting and nutrition to crop farming. There are people out there still growing only 100 bushel corn. There are the average crop farmers that produce 150 bushel corn. There are the managers who grow 200 bushel corn on a regular basis and lastly there are the innovators. The early adapters and innovators are growing 250-300 bushel corn. Hey, maybe it's a lot like putting inches on bucks? Let's explore how would I qualify you at this stage of your wildlife program. Let's ask these questions.
The 100 class Have you taken a soil test? If you haven't then automatically your a 100 class. Sure you might have some really good growth one year but more than likely it's short term. You probably are mining the soil and you might have 1 or 2 good years when everything is perfect but it won't last. Are you grabbing whatever seed is on the shelf at a big box store, feed mill or farm store? Do you look closely at every label before you buy? If not your in the 100 class
The 150 class Have you been working on soil amendments and overall soil health? To me this entails cover crops, smother crops, soil organic matter builders and maintaining a soil ph in the 6.0-7.0 range. Part of equation would also be the proper fertlization. If your doing these things your probably in the 150 class. Are you properly working the soil? Are you over working the soil? Are you continually fighting weeds. Are you properly applying chemicals in both rates and timing? Do you have water holes or water troughs? Are you creating rub lines and scrapelines? Do you have bedding areas? If your doing these things your more than likely in the 150 class area.
The 200 class Are you planting improved genetics? Are you aware of the differences between types of brassicas? Are you planting multi graze genetics? Do you know the maturity dates of the brassicas, corn, and soybeans your planting? Most don't. If you do then more than likely your here. Are you practicing plot rotation. Are you planting warm season native grasses. Do you fields set aside mainly for winter feed for the deer. Are you using deer mineral where legal? If your doing these things your near the top and are most likely achieving consistent success.
The 250-300 class Are you using foliar plant foods with all application of chemicals? Are you using humics to loosen the soil and help with nutrient uptake? Do you know what elite genetics are and are you using them? Are you planting fruit trees? Are you creating pinch points, funnels and moving deer where you want them to be? Do you have an stockpiled forage to last into February in the northern climates. Are you using deer minerals all year where legal? If so, are you using one that meet's a deer's daily requirement? If your aware what a deer's daily requirements are for nutrients, then your most likely in this class.
Sure, it gets way more complicated and there are other factors that come into play but this is a start.
Where do you feel you are in your own program? What do you feel you need to do better with?
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By:
t-roy
Date:19-Jan-17
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I would say I'm in the 180-220 class range. Just this evening I finished cutting some trees to open the canopy up some on a new narrow plot that is going into clover this year. It's up on a timbered flat along the edge of the ravine leading to another kill plot that will be planted in early maturing soybeans with triticale broadcast into the standing beans in September. I got all of my ag lime put down last month on all of my plots that needed it. Also trimmed some shooting lanes on a couple of new stand locations the day after our season closed here and pulled a bunch of stands as well. I have planted fruit trees as well as some Dunstan Chestnut trees in the past few years and plan on putting more in this year. Been putting out mineral for the past 15 years and just switched to your product this year. The deer really hammer it!
The area I need to improve upon most is weed control. Pigweed(Water Hemp) is the easily my biggest issue. I'm thinking about going to Liberty Link soybeans this year. My brassicas did pretty well this year but the pigweed was pretty bad in them. Weather was another big player on my plots this year. First, too wet, then absolutely no rain for over a month. It was a challenging year to say the least. Worth every minute of it though!
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By:
drycreek
Date:19-Jan-17
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Wow November ! So impressive !
John, I guess I'm at about the 150 mark, trying to get to the 200 mark. It's a struggle sometimes !
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By:
Mark Watkins
Date:20-Jan-17
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November,
Congrats on being located on the idyllic property with superior genetics.....and "10 in the book myself"
Not many of us are as fortunate as you. You must be quite the hunter.
Obviously Nutrionist's post was not targeted to you as the audience of this topic.
Back to the intent of this thread....probably a 150-200 range.....things are going very well but a lot of work on the "to do list" for 2017.....every year gets better and better!
Mark
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By:
XMan
Date:20-Jan-17
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I am probably the 125 guy, not an expert by any means and only 5 seasons under my belt:) I don't live close to my properties and just getting a good plot planted each year is my only goal. This year I have been looking at how to improve habitat, for example I am clearing a 2 acre area to add a new green plot to compliment my tillable corn. Its strategically placed between my corn fields and two major bedding areas. I am going to plant switchgrass to help create new bedding areas for the does. Also, doing some hinge cutting to create new bedding areas. I have ordered 25 apple trees to plant in the spring. I have a plan but know its going to take me 4 to 5 years to finish all the items I need and want to do. We shall see how far I get with these ambitious plans.
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By:
nutritionist
Date:20-Jan-17
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I find satifaction seeing kids shoot does, handicapped having the opportunity. Success to me isn't measured by inches but an increase level of satisfaction by anyone putting in the work.
Sure, i have clients with 305" year old bucks and i still consult for people with some of the most expensive animals in the world but i could care less bout how big anyone's bucks are they shoot or how many. I'd walk away from anyone who calls me bragging about ANYTHING. Those people are experts in their own minds. That sort of attitude is what drives me to work with the guy who has never killed a big buck. That first big deer will be even more important to them than the guy who is driven by fame or look at me.
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By:
willliamtell
Date:20-Jan-17
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Nutri - great knowledge. This obviously makes a big difference in what you get, and I've seen food plot pix on this site that I want to graze on myself with some salad dressing - they look that good.
What's ballpark on hiring a consultant like you to get your plots/property into a 200 range? Say you've got 100 acres with varying habitat. Speaking of which can't soil vary widely depending on whether it's grassland, forest, forest edge, or even within those habitat types? Also, soil can have a bunch of horizons - how deep should I dig to test?
Are there any quick methods to get an idea of what the soil quality likely is, without testing? I know the dark rich well-drained high in organic matter soil, but none of what I look at seems to quite fit that. Say you're looking at properties to potentially purchase and plant. What can the types/condition of plants on a site tell you?
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By:
t-roy
Date:20-Jan-17
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Xman pointed out a potentially big factor on having success on plots. I live within 3 miles of all of my plots. That makes it way easier for me to be able to get things done in a timely manner.
I have to tip my cap to you guys that have to travel a ways to maintain your plots!
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By:
Mark Watkins
Date:20-Jan-17
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Best hunting day of 2016? The day my friends son killed his first deer with a bow on my place!!!
So excited, enthused and hooked for life....the only thing we wanted for Christmas was bowhunting gear!!
He helped do quite a bit of work last year and is chomping at the bit to get to work on some TSI work this winter!
Makes all the hardwork so worth it!
Mark
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By:
drycreek
Date:20-Jan-17
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XMan, sounds like you may be doing a little more than you give yourself credit for, or maybe I'm doing a little less !
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By:
XMan
Date:21-Jan-17
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drycreek Yeah, maybe this year I get a slight improvement in my score :) Its really the first year of those improvements, I have been half assing it for years with just getting my plots in. I spent most of my time fixing up my house that we stay in so I am hoping as I slowdown doing camp fix chores that I can work more on the land and do the improvements.
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Date:21-Jan-17
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This seems like a rather one-dimensional university that offers several levels, but just one degree: Food Plotting.
Instead of just moving up on the food plotting dimension, my suggestion would be to broaden your scope and take a double or triple major?
Food plots and feeding is the easiest "degree" to get. IMO, way too much overthinking and overcomplicating is being done by those who are trying to justify and sell more complicated and expensive products into this space.
My suggestion is to go broader with your horizons this year into areas like habitat management, animal health / disease management, and advanced deer and herd behavior study and management.
Grouse
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By:
drycreek
Date:21-Jan-17
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Famous, that sounds good, but on a couple places I hunt, about all I can do is grow food plots and put out minerals or feed protein. The other options are not available to me because it's private timberlands and pine is king. So I'm relegated to openings that are already there to do whatever I can. Habitat management is out if it means touching a pine tree, but I would like to hear your methods of animal health/disease management and advanced deer and herd behavior study and management.
BTW, I agree that food plots need not be complicated. Through trial and error, I have proved, at least to myself, that I can accomplish my goals with about four different crops that are pretty simple to grow. These would be iron/clay peas, white clovers for spring/summer, and wheat/oats and Austrian winter pea mix for fall/winter.
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Date:21-Jan-17
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Drycreek, my "methods" are simply reading and trying to plan for or apply what is know about diseases. Right now I'm doing as much reading as possible about CWD and other diseases to educate myself on what is know, unknown, and current studies underway about how these diseases are spread and their lifecycle. What I want to understand is if and/or how there might be areas where my land management practices might possibly be aiding in spreading these diseases now or at some future time.
I'm also getting more scientific about observing specific deer over the winter and trying to estimate weight and try to observe if there is a difference in multiple births. I'm trying to determine if my supplemental feeding program is providing nutrition that may help increase multiple births over previous observations I took before I was feeding all winter. Obviously, I realize there are other factors. I've also actually toyed with ideas for adding a big platform scale to try to get weight readings for single deer, but I'll save that for my PhD...
As I said, food plots are the easy part, and I agree they don't need to be and shouldn't be overcomplicated.
Grouse
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By:
drycreek
Date:21-Jan-17
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Grouse, we already weigh deer, plus take antler measurements on bucks, as part of the state MLDP program. We census in order to determine how many buck and antlerless tags we get each year also. As for diseases, it looks like to me our CWD cases are mostly due to deer breeders transporting deer to other breeders or to " kick and shoot " operations. Unfortunately, this is big business in Texas, and I don't expect it to change until it's too late. Fortunately, we only have a few cases at present. We have a little EHD from time to time, but I don't know what we, as hunters, can do about that, as the weather ( rain or lack of it ) seems to be the controlling factor. Good luck with your PhD.
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By:
nutritionist
Date:21-Jan-17
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I offer soil testing $10 a sample. If you don't have a probe then take a shovel, peel the trash off the soil surface. Dig down 6" and take the contents of that shovel and place in a 5 gallon pail. Repeat doing 8-10 spots per field. Mix up those contents and place in a sandwhich bag and get to me or a lab.
So many people planting food plots don't educate themselves as to what is the nutritional differences and yield differences between species.
Habitat. This brings up something many don't look towards. Animals rarely freeze to death and most healthy issues are a result of moisture Animals need dry places to lay. Habitat people overlook include bee mixes, pollinators and forbs.
What is nutrition? It's the next bite. What can you do to get 1 more bite of nutrition into a deer and doing everything in one's power to make it more nutritious. Guess what? Most of these things are relatively easy.
Too many people want a silver bullet and here is 5 things that will cost less than $50 an acre and you will see success on many levels.
Foliar plant foods Ammonium Sulfate Multigraze genetics Proper soil pH using the correct fertilizer blend at the correct amount.
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By:
Zbone
Date:22-Jan-17
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HOLY MOLY, who's buck is that?
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By:
APauls
Date:23-Jan-17
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I'm currently at the "saving for a future piece of property" stage, but just sold our revenue house, and have some savings set aside. With the two combined, I am now in the "looking for the right piece of property stage"...which could take years I assume.
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By:
drycreek
Date:23-Jan-17
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APauls, congrats on looking for a place. I wish you luck, and perseverance ! Iooked at a dozen places in Central Texas years ago, because I thought that's where I wanted property ( more deer numbers, lots of turkeys ), but always found something wrong with them. I finally gave it up, and about six years ago, a friend called me about a place close to my home he had came across quite by accident. I looked at it, and bought it. So, maybe you'll look for a few years, and maybe one will fall in your lap.
The only advice I will give is to make sure it's what you want, or can be IMPROVED to be what you want. I did a lot of improvements on mine, but I'm fortunate to have a background in heavy equipment operating and have my own tractor, backhoe, and dozer. That made it much less expensive, and I was able to do it at my leisure instead of hiring someone to do it all at once. I coupled my improvements with timber harvesting and that offset some of my costs. Whatever you do, good luck, and have fun !
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By:
willliamtell
Date:23-Jan-17
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Anybody want some free grunt labor in improving their property for critters in NorCal, send me a PM. Hope to be sending an email from the opposite side in a few years. Nutri - last I checked they wanted about $50 per sample around here. I will recheck that, but may take you up on your testing offer - seems very fair.
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By:
Bowman
Date:25-Jan-17
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For all,
The nutritionist has written about anti-worming properties.
In my opinion, worth a consideration.
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By:
Konk1
Date:21-Feb-17
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I probably fall into the 125 Class. Nutritionist has processed my soil samples and made recommendations. Now it's just a matter of waiting out Mother Nature for the proper tilling and planting time. I am really looking forward to this growing season to see how this all pans out.
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By:
Vonfoust
Date:21-Feb-17
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Nutritionist, I would dig 6" down to send you a soil sample but I don't have an excavator. I guess abandoned strip mine owners are doomed to always be 100's.
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By:
Konk1
Date:27-Feb-17
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November same as in the Wisconsin forum you are tying to ruin another thread. If you don't have anything to constructively add to this thread or this forum for that matter, then please just keep it to yourself.
