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Land getting logged
General Deer Topics
Messages posted to thread:
Langbow 08-Jan-17
greenmountain 08-Jan-17
Don K 08-Jan-17
craig@work 08-Jan-17
CAS_HNTR 08-Jan-17
razorhead 08-Jan-17
writer 08-Jan-17
woodguy65 08-Jan-17
hawkeye in PA 08-Jan-17
WV Mountaineer 08-Jan-17
glunker 08-Jan-17
Langbow 08-Jan-17
Psuhoss 08-Jan-17
WV Mountaineer 08-Jan-17
glunker 08-Jan-17
drycreek 08-Jan-17
LKH 08-Jan-17
Langbow 08-Jan-17
rodb 10-Jan-17
BigOzzie 10-Jan-17
35-Acre 10-Jan-17
Psuhoss 10-Jan-17
BlacktailBowhunter 10-Jan-17
Lee 10-Jan-17
kylet 11-Jan-17
35-Acre 18-Jan-17
DeerObsession 05-Jan-18


Date:08-Jan-17

Guys been hunting my dads piece of property for about 40 years. It was logged about 30 years ago so it's probably time. About 80 acres (1/2) of the area is very mature oaks with little browse. When heavy with acorns a good spot to sit but also so "open" it seems by mid October it's more night activity. Over the last 10 years or so I have concentrated on the thicker areas and transition spots close to bedding. These spots have some mature oaks too so with them gone and thicker spots depleted where will the deer bed and fee safe. I know once logged it will take 5 years or so for good browse to develop. In that time with little feed an now less cover than before I am afraid the deer will find better spots to be. I plan to plant 1 maybe 2 plots but wonder if a plot screen would be better. How do I give the deer quick cover? Maybe the hunting here will be bad for 2/3 years but you got to have a plan...right? Looking for some suggestions.

Date:08-Jan-17

Hello Langbow: Do you know a forester who knows your goals? Logging is not an all or nothing thing. Some years ago one of the places I hunt was heavily logged. I took pictures of the huge log piles. The woods were noticeably thinner but there was still a lot of cover. Some thought the deer population would crash others thought we would see a big increase in numbers . Neither happened. The parcel is much larger but I believe the concept will hold up in 80 acres. Make your goals clear and good luck.

By: Don K
Date:08-Jan-17

Selective timber cutting can be incredible. My buddy did this to his land last season and the doe population seems to have exploded. The timber cutting has allowed new growth, browse, and bedding. I was very skeptical that this would help and thought it would take many years for it to benefit. I see now that the results where immediate, and the future is bright. Hire someone that does it correctly and you will see results

Date:08-Jan-17

We log our properties every 10 years and it only helps the hunting. Granted most of what we log is hard maple but like I said each time it only makes the hunting better. Agree with the get a forester to help you opinion.

Date:08-Jan-17

Just have them leave the tree tops......good cover day 1......it will regenerate pretty fast too. Year 5 will be a jungle, but year 2 will have lots of root suckers/stump regrowth from cut trees. Managing timber and using a saw is the best thing for deer and most wildlife.

Date:08-Jan-17

My land in the UP was select cutted this past late winter and spring,,,, the logger did an incredible job, but he specializes in that, no all loggers want to do that, it is more labor intensive, but they get a bigger cut due to that.....

I did that for my land, no to make money, of course I did, but to keep the land healthy for wildlife,,,,,, they took out all the popple, some maple, left most of the hardwood and conifers, looks great........

prior to cutting a forester came in and checked the health of the other trees,,,,,,,,

wish you could get the Feds to do the same

By: writer
Date:08-Jan-17

We saw good browse and fawning cover the spring after walnut was logged on our place. Those trees, though, were nicely scattered.

Date:08-Jan-17

After logging I wouldn't touch it, as others have said leave the tops. They will provide cover but more importantly provide protection to new growth of seedling tree's popping up through the branches. Deer are browse feeders more than anything and that means eating all the new sprouts, shoots, weeds, natural forbs popping up from stumps and the ground which will now have sunshine hitting it..

The canopy will be gone or at least opened up a great deal, and when the sun hits the ground you'll get a diverse menu of new weeds and forbs. Its quite likely it will be thicker than you think. If you want to get crazy lime and fertilize the existing soil and put the natural stuff on steroids.

You really can't go wrong either way, if you want to put up a screen and plots go for it, but if you did nothing I think you would be amazed.

Date:08-Jan-17

IMO get a forester involved is well worth his percentage, but do a back ground check on him. (ask around) We just had the nicest guy promise us everything under the sun, was very knowledgeable, but he was a drunk. Hard to get anywhere when he's locked up. First bad experience out of many involvements.

Date:08-Jan-17

I am a forester and I definitely recommend what these guys have said. Improving habitat is my biggest request by landowners. So, harvest, residual stand, and improvements for wildlife all go together if done correctly.

I don't know where you are and the methods employed by loggers to harvest timber but, leaving the tops is great. Don't have them confined. Leave them where they land. Mechanized harvest will leave less tops than traditional cable skidding so, expect to see a difference based on the logger. And, the tops aren't the defining element in regeneration either so don't fret it if they pick it pretty clean.

Get you a forester. A industry guy will do just as well as any consultant. Get a guy you are comfortable with and someone who knows the market's. Remember, loggers get paid by volume so what you request must be do-able. But, a forester will know that and, a forester will ensure the logger goes by the contract that you sign. Around here we hold a dollar amount per thousand board feet, of the loggers weekly pay in an escrow account, until the job is complete. To ensure all contract requirements are met. I like most every logger I've worked with. Some of these guys have become my best friends. But, business is business. I promise you this works well and, is fair. So, if you go with a non industry guy, ensure the forester secures a performance bond upon signing the contract with the buyer or, withholds these weekly payments.

Quality regeneration will start the following spring. Deer will work the tops as soon as they hit the ground too. So, it starts quickly. It won't take as long as you think to get thick either. Good luck and God Bless

Date:08-Jan-17

Second getting a forester. For the best deer hunting forget select cutting. The stunted and junk trees should be cut to open areas or the remaining canopy hurts your regrowth. Maybe heavy cut 1/3 in small patches every 10 years to have transition areas. Some big old oaks have no value except for acorns so alot of them stay.

Date:08-Jan-17

Not sure if my father would want a forester involved. I will pursuit with him. It's his deal and he is old school. Sounds like most agree leaving the tops. My dad is too old to walk the land so I am walking with the logger in a month or so. So far he has logged 2 pieces of property (friend of mine) and he has been an honest man to work with. In my mind I want to tag a dozen big oaks or so as not to cut so I know those will continue to be mass for the deer. As for food plot and screen I will keep them as an option but sounds like it may not be necessary. Time will tell. Thanks for some suggestions.

Date:08-Jan-17

Ditto those above suggesting to hire a forester. We have been working with one for a couple years and he has more than paid for himself. We laid out a plan for our entire 180 acres and recently did a shelter wood cut in the first 62 acre phase. The forester did the e&s plan, bidding, inspection, and retirement of the cut for about 8% of the bid. Although not our primary goal, we received far more cash influx than anticipated. With the extra funds we were able to professionally survey the property and most importantly, had funds left over the complete a deer exclosure of 10 foot fencing around the entire 62 acres to promote regeneration.

After about 5 years of regrowth we will then remove the fence and cut the majority of the remaining trees from the last cut. The forester expects to see a six-figure + bid on the cut planned for 2021/2022.

Finding the right forester is critical to a successful project. Ours is a professor at the local large university and uses his private clients such as us to fulfill his passion and supplement his family summer vacation. Wins all around.

If there are any specific questions, please feel free to PM. We are certainly happy with what we are seeing so far.

Date:08-Jan-17

If you are going to go about this without a forester, plan on loosing 10% of your leave trees if they are Oak. More swallow rooted species can go as high as 40%. Sudden exposure to sun can and will shock some to death. Others will be lost to wind and lightning. It's just the way it is so, add those numbers to your goal because, that mortality is a given in time. God Bless

Date:08-Jan-17

If you father does not want to hire a forester check to see if a state forester will walk it with you and describe what you have and what to do for goals. They also help with contract ideas, reseeding log roads, etc. For example a medium oak next to a mature oak might be as old as the mature tree but was stunted because it lived under the canopy of the bigger tree. Both trees should be cut. No way am I letting a forester set the price, unless he is just cutting, skidding, stacking and you take bids on the stack.

Date:08-Jan-17

I had a 40' to 50' border around my place completely clearcut shortly after I bought it. Grubbed the stumps and burned everything. This was to facilitate travel around the place as well as plant some food plots. A few years later, I had 14 acres clearcut, some plantation pine thinned, and some long narrow food plots clearcut. All tops were carried back and left in the woods. The clearcut 14 acres was planted back in pines. I can see no downside to this whatsoever. On the place where I live (85 acres), just this spring I had all pine and elm cut on a 12" stump. This pretty well put me out of the pine business for years to come, but I'm looking forward to the browse that's coming for the next few years. My son normally kills one decent buck on the home place each year, and I sometimes kill a doe, but I didn't hunt it this year. I think after the severe thinning we will have a few more bucks calling it home. Good luck with yours !

By: LKH
Date:08-Jan-17

Make sure you don't make an effort to remove the limbs and other debris. It's important for the soil health.

Date:08-Jan-17

No chance I will remove tops. I have 3 boys playing soccer in the spring, fall and winter. I do hope to have a small plot or two, 1/2 acre at best each. Thinking about grandpa rays inner sanctum, logging trail mix ( a few key spots) or possibly mass builder. Just thinking I really like shooting deer. Making sausage next weekend. Fun stuff!

By: rodb
Date:10-Jan-17

I'm not a big fan of leaving tops. Deer don't use them for anything except to nibble a few branches and leaves after they fall to the ground. They will be a pain for you and the deer for many years. Not only that but they could present a big fire hazard later on.

Select cut and leave about 6 to 8 mature oaks per acre and promote the growth of new oaks in the coming years. Don't know if oak wilt is an issue where you are but if it is beware of the time of season.

Date:10-Jan-17

Can you leave tops? To sell my logs at the mill I had to purchase a state lands slash permit. When I deliver a load of logs to the mill they hold back a slash fee, and send it to the Dnrc. When logging is done the Dnrc comes and inspects, then returns the slash fee. I did well on the inspection because all slash was piled and burned. It was my understanding you could not just leave it lay. I am no expert this is just my understanding of what I had to do. The DNRC guy was praising the work we did, so maybe we over piled our slash and could have left more of it lay?

Just saying. oz

Date:10-Jan-17

35-Acre's embedded Photo

I went through this with the same aspirations that you outlines. I have 40 acres and had it logged 2 years ago (in January). I live the Region 4/5 so we have heavy winters. Immediately after the logging the land had deer held on it based on all of the new tops that were left.

I had planned on putting in food plots and so forth. However, don't over-look the term "sweat equity" as it comes to food plot management. I had a 2 acre field put in. The first year, after the dozer had cleared the stumps in May, I was able to plant and things came up "well". However, this past year, I learned that you need a lot of equipment to maintain that strategy. That is a tractor, tiller, disc-er, brush hog and compactor. I didn't have any of that. I was planning on using my ATV. But when I started to look at buying these other implements I found that for my situation I would have had to buy several thousand dollars worth of "questionable" equipment. Not to mention annual expenses like herbicide, seed, fertilizer, lime and so forth.

This year, I looked into my state conservation agency and found that they sell trees at a VERY reasonable price. I was able to order 300 trees for $180. I get those in the spring this year and they consist of cranberry, wild apple, crabapple, Hazlebut, dogwood and spruce. With these, I plan to replant the field and many other areas that were thinned, as well as, putting in the spruce as a barrier from adjacent logging roads and for cover from the tough winters we have here in Buffalo, NY.

I also had purchased a few apple trees and pear trees at the end of the year last year (Lowe's - on sale for something like %60 off).

I plan on picking up 4 Dunsten Chestnut trees that will be the main trees in the field I had cleared.

So not only, is the logging giving me native browse, but it's giving me the opportunity to really change the carrying capacity and food sources for my entire property.

I'm going to try and post 3 photos on this to show the initial logging, the cleanup and the end result from year 1. It really makes things look promising but as I said, the food plots really is a lot of work without the right equiment

Date:10-Jan-17

Psuhoss's embedded Photo

Snapped a couple photos today of the deer exclosure today on my way by. One of the photos shows the landing that was used during the logging operations that we will convert to a food plot once we take the fence down. While the fence is up, we are taking advantage of the 4 or 5 years to plant some apple and chestnut trees without the danger of getting browsed off.

The yellow wire area is a step thru man gate. We have a large double gate on the other side of the fenced in acreage for trucks, tractors, etc. The loggers did a great job cutting the tops to a max 6' height and even distributed the cutoffs from the landing throughout the 62 acres.

Very happy so far.

Date:10-Jan-17

If it's a piece that will be in the family for several years to come and you have influence on what happens to it, I would contact a QDMA professional for advice.

You can definitely create a deer haven with the proper planning.

By: Lee
Date:10-Jan-17

A forester will more than pay for himself. I also ways ask landowners that I work with if they would sell there stocks without knowing market price and they say of course not! So why would you sell your timber without knowing what it's worth??! Then you hear that blankety blank logger took advantage of so and so and really screwed them. In reality the logger shot a lowball offer, the landowner thinks it sounds great and jumps on it only to find out later they got hosed! Hell they were the one that thought they were getting a deal! Stupid imo.

I'll leave you with this one - true story. Forester buddy of mine gets a call from a landowner. Seems a logger stopped in and offered him 40k for the timber behind his house. He thought it sounded too good to be true so called my buddy to see if it was a fair deal. Buddy cruises it - lots of volume - puts together a sale and gets 110k for the landowner. The landowner then gets pissed at my buddies 10% fee and throws a fit saying my buddies putting the screws to him! This is all after getting the guy an additional 70k for his timber! Go figure.

Lee

By: kylet
Date:11-Jan-17

kylet's embedded Photo

If you're nice to us, we might even make a water hole for you. . .

Date:18-Jan-17

Yikes! That was one of the stipulations I put in my contract was that they had to leave the land without the giant ruts and such.

Date:05-Jan-18

I haven't once seen deer numbers suffer after timber harvests. Always see more deer, even year one.


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