| Discuss our 2015 DeerBuilder Seed Review |
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By:
Medicinemann
Date:21-Apr-16
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PM(s) sent....
Why are you mowing the clover, instead of letting the deer "mow" it for you?
Could you double check some of your foodplot sizes? you aren't really using foodplots THAT small.....are you?
I started a new foodplot this year....the pH is horrible (4.8). What plant would probably tolerate the low pHs the best, until my liming efforts kick-in? I really seem to gravitate towards the Ladino Clover....even if a little extra effort is required for optimal results.
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By:
MK111
Date:22-Apr-16
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Great research program and a world of information. Thanks.
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Date:22-Apr-16
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A lot of good information in you annual seed reviews. and I do take your results into consideration in my decisions. I do wonder how much bigger your bucks and fawns would be if they had unlimited 42% protein through the key growing months. Is there other options for supplemental summer feeding for you? I use eagles for the summer and still get great pod production for winter, but I am in zone 7C. Maybe some future research on this topic would be useful for many.
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Date:22-Apr-16
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Pat
Pat
Do any of your plots go dormant in the summer? How do these plots nutrient production compare to forage beans for example? What other options are there for feed for your deer throughout the year?
Your reviews are excellent, maybe we can have some future research/discussion into "phasing" / tailoring our plot plans to ensure our efforts serve to address stress times as well as draw for shooter plots. I think these challenges may be regional/specific to climate, soils, populations etc, but trials and discussion on addressing these issues under various challenges may be useful.
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By:
yacattack
Date:22-Apr-16
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Hi Pat, I have used many of your recommendations from reading this thread year after year.So first and Formost I want to thank you for this info. I have land in the finger lake region of NY. We have limited areas to plant due to topography.We have been planting for about 8 years( 2 - 1/2 acre plots oN top one 3 acre plot at base if hill near.a road. On the top of the the 1200 ft very steep hill. Getting equipment up there has been our biggest issues, we use my Polaris 700 UTV mostly to disc, spray and spread seed, packing,etc. That's his name the soil is basically shale rocky,clayish type dirt.We lime (pellet lime heavy every year along w fertilizing and planting according to manufacturer directions. I only have a few days to plant( early May turkey season since I live out of state.Last year I planted a mixture of white and red clover,bassica,oats and turnip mix. Initial growth was good not great,Moisture good early and August went dry. Growth was stunted and weeds did come in heavy by fall. Since we use the top plots as hunting plots by mid October they were pretty decimated. We want to plant corn(round up ready) on the top plots and then plant Clover between rows spaced a bit wider than normal for light. I hunt November 1st thru first few.days of gun.So there is minimal pressure until then.We do have neighbors farmers that plant corn, alfalfa, nearby. The plot below has been corn for 5 years, but we have to change the crop due to soil nutrition issues severe stinted growth last year.Since this plot is by a road we did it as a view blocker,.and winter forage.we own a total of 120 acres,mostly steep.wooded side hill with my be 40 acres of top (flat) and the 3 on the base of the hill. The plots are smallish.and we might expand them.a.bit when we hire a / Contractor excavator to repair drainage and logging/ access roads to the top. Sorry for the long text, we just need some advise to KEEP the plots alive during mid October thru the rut. Corn seems to be the best choice since it can be knocked down at our discretion and usually deer get on it right away. Farmers leave nothing behind since now they cut w little silage left behind. Whew, thanks for any advice
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By:
Medicinemann
Date:22-Apr-16
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Pat,
I put down 1,000 pounds of pelletized lime yesterday (this foodplot is only 0.4 acres). It rained last night, which will hopefully help to incorporate it into the soil. I am going to disc, and maybe even rotivate the soil next week.
Next question....should I apply MORE lime after using the disc or rototiller.....or should I be thinking about fertilizer instead?
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By:
Medicinemann
Date:22-Apr-16
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Will clover even grow in a pH THAT low?
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By:
Medicinemann
Date:22-Apr-16
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Pat,
I am going to plant some apple trees and pear trees throughout the foodplot. The clover will cover all ground not fenced in around the fruit trees. It is my hope that the clover will attract bees to pollinate the fruit trees, as well as attracting deer to the clearing.
I have selected apple tree varieties that will cross pollinate each other....and I have them lined up to take advantage of the dominant wind direction, just in case the bees don't get the job done, maybe the wind can give an assist. While pear blossoms are not as odiferous as apple tree blossoms (making it tougher for the bees to locate them), the pear trees can self pollinate....but have better yields when cross-pollinated by pollen from other trees.
Any idea about the effect of pH on fruit trees? I know that blueberries prefer acidic soil....but I think that apple trees (and pear trees, to a lesser extent) prefer soils in the 6.5 to 7.0 range.
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Date:23-Apr-16
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One of my clover plots came in 5.5 ph this year, and the soil test recommended 1.8 TONS/acre. That is 3600 lbs/acre. The plot grew terrific last year (Mar 15 spring seeding direct seeded, chisel plow/disc/seed/cultipack, no nurse crop) and was the primary draw from OCT all the way through DEC.
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By:
happygolucky
Date:23-Apr-16
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This is really cool and I am really jealous of those awesome plots. I continue to learn.
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By:
drycreek
Date:23-Apr-16
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That's a great feature Pat, lots of food for thought. Very interesting about the difference in utilization of the bean plots too. I've never had to fence mine, but I'm planting Grandpa Ray's 4 Galore mix on some plots on a new place this year and I'm really not too sure of the deer density, so it will be a learning experience for sure. You had some really nice looking clover there too !
Thanks for putting this up.
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By:
Butternut40
Date:25-Apr-16
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Pat, thanks for taking the time to do the review. It appears that your FOOD PLOT 3 - REGAL GRAZE LADINO CLOVER SEED BY HANCOCK SEED is your best early season plot? Great looking.
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By:
Mad Trapper
Date:25-Apr-16
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Hey Pat: Why alfalfa? Are you mowing it? We have stayed away from alfalfa due to it being a little more difficult to establish and then the need for mowing to keep it from getting stemmy. We can mow it, but I don't want to get into the business of having to rake and bale it. What are your plans with it?
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By:
Mad Trapper
Date:25-Apr-16
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I don't have alfalfa around me and I am sure that it would be a draw. I just don't want to have to mow/bale it. Let us know how it goes.
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By:
Butternut40
Date:25-Apr-16
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Funny, I have alfalfa all around me some years and I hardly see them in it. They do like brassicas though as it is something different. Even before a good frost.
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Date:26-Apr-16
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Pat,
Is your alfalfa RR?
Great stuff here, thanks.
I will trade you the moisture problem for our all too common lately droughts:)
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By:
Mark Watkins
Date:26-Apr-16
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Mad Trapper,
The best way I have found for us hunter/gatherers to grow and manage alfalfa is to find a neighbor farmer that can do it all.
For example, in my case my neighbor came in and put in a 4 acre alfalfa plot on some nutrient depleted ground. He pays me $0.00 in cash rent, has in input and fertilization costs and he gets two cuttings a year. This stimulates growth and controls broadleaf s. the third cutting is left for the deer.
This is non RR alfalfa.
The other night there were 43 deer on the alfalfa.....an excellent source of 3 season protein . I was missing this nutrition source previously.
Mark
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By:
Mark Watkins
Date:27-Apr-16
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Pat, Good to hear your alfalfa was a draw all the way into November. Do you remember what kind of alfalfa you had in the one acre?
My deer left it last fall about the third week of October after the second or third hard frost. Hopefully, this year (the second year) it will be thick enough to remain green closer to the ground and remain a draw a little later.
Mark
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Date:28-Apr-16
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Pat, Your stuff always makes me think even though I do not participate much. Realized there are some folks here who are way ahead of the average 'habitater' like me.
I am sure you are familiar with Jeff Sturgis's books/articles. I have one 6.25 acre long continuous and circuitous food plot that I am in my second year of basically splitting the plot lengthwise into two halves. One half is brassica, (rape and turnips, kale occasionally), radishes, sugar beets and forage soybeans that I try and plant in June. The other half is cereal grains (rye grain and oats, hardly use wheat any longer as still trying to build the soil nutrients on my abused farm) plus winter peas and some radishes also for hard pan break-up.
I rotate the sides each year.
The discussion on clover had me realize that when I included clover in my rotation in the early years, I always had more wildlife-deer, turkey and quail. So, I am taking 2 acres of my plot at one end and I will plant it in a mix of ladino, medium red and durano clover and use half wheat and rye grain as the cover.
The clover being a legume will let me take the risk of using some wheat, and I have 550 lbs. of urea left over that I will top dress with in the Spring. This should still give me a full six acres of fall attractant plots.
I will leave the clover in that same area for 2 years while I rotate the other four acres back and forth each year. Then, on the third year I will rotate the clover to a different 2 acres of the field and keep rotating the brassica/cereals in the other remaining two.
What do you think?
I believe you have your plots more spread out to create traffic throughout your properties, but with neighboring pressure, tillable soil location and other factors I really do not have many options. Also, lots of ag around so I don't try and compete with regular crops like corn and beans any longer.
Thanks!
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By:
Mad Trapper
Date:28-Apr-16
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Pat now that Jake is into the foodplot business, we are both in trouble. Whatever he touches breaks or blows up. If he asks to borrow something, just tell him that it is in the shop or something. I get a daily dose of humor by telephone from him either from his plot or at a tractor supply. Today we had to have a discussion about screen mesh size for his fruit trees. He was worried about a mouse climbing up the finer mesh stuff, so he bought a larger mesh. I couldn't resist stoking the flames and asked what about a mouse sticking its head through the larger openings. Not to worry he said, he planned to install it a few inches away from the trunk. He added that unless he had vampire mice with long fangs, he would be good to go. GOD help us! Looking forward to Kansas, I am going to shave my head in advance. That way, I will be unable to pull my hair out.
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By:
Medicinemann
Date:28-Apr-16
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The worst part is that I called Tom to bust his chops about the previous post....and he had already left work for the day.....and it wasn't even 4:00PM yet....and that is after leaving early for lunch as well. If you're only going to work a couple hours a day, you might as well retire now!!!!
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By:
Medicinemann
Date:28-Apr-16
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Both of you smart asses better get your licks in now.....because when we are in Kansas this Fall, reviewing the election results on FOX News, both of you are going to be down in the dumps....unless she gets indicted and prosecuted in record time.
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By:
Mad Trapper
Date:29-Apr-16
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Well may be only one of us. I seem to remember one of the vehicles having a pro Hillary sticker on it and it wasn't mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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By:
MK111
Date:02-Jun-16
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Great review. Minor part but is the plot 100 acres from the cabin, or 100 ft, or 100 yds?
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By:
Medicinemann
Date:02-Jun-16
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Pat's foodplots are so damn good, when he walks through some of them while the deer are feeding, they don't even leave.....they watch him, but continue feeding.
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By:
Mad Trapper
Date:02-Jun-16
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Maybe they have seen you shoot?????
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Date:02-Jun-16
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Pat, Still like to get your thoughts on my last post above. I will start prepping the plots tomorrow, spraying generic herbicide. Hopefully in two weeks I will plant the 2 acres of brassica, radish, beets and beans. We have had good moisture and it is supposed to be dry for at least a week.
Always love to turn the key on the tractor! Thanks.
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By:
Medicinemann
Date:02-Jun-16
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Mad Trapper (FNG),
As funny as your response was, I am afraid that you have been upstaged by FOG!!!!
