| Shooting piebalds! |
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By:
Buck Maniac
Date:18-Aug-15
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So the last few years iv been watching this piebald on some land I hunt. I passed her up three times only to have people say I'm an idiot for not shooting her. I was just wondering what your opinions are on shooting albino and piebalds. I think if I get another chance I might just have to take her "Sorry the picture's blurry"
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By:
Cottonwood88
Date:18-Aug-15
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The Native Americans used to believe they were sacred. I'd have to say I would pass just to give others the oppprtunity to see her alive and well but if she is 3-4 years old it's time to take her I'd say.
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By:
Bou'bound
Date:18-Aug-15
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you're only an idiot for shooting something because someone else says you should (or shouldn't).
if you shot it what would you do with it differently than if it was normal coloration. if the answer is "nothing" then i'd probably let it go and use your tag on a normal deer.
but again, you'd be an idiot to do what I suggest.
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By:
Active Shooter
Date:18-Aug-15
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Take a different doe. I think they are special and I would much rather watch her from year to year than take her. Any piebald (Buck or Doe) than I have ever seen has been given a free pass.
Just My Opinion
Tony
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By:
venisonjunky
Date:18-Aug-15
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I would not let others pressure me to shoot her ! If you want to shoot then shoot ! If you enjoy just seeing her then shoot a doe that's not piebald .
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By:
LBshooter
Date:18-Aug-15
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Why not take her? But only you can answer the question.
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By:
MF
Date:18-Aug-15
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I shot a small 8pt piebald back in the day. It is a beautiful mount. I had the hide tanned also and both are on the wall in the cabin.
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By:
shortstop
Date:18-Aug-15
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Does that meat taste any better? That would answer the question in my mind.........unless you had something in mind for the hide.
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By:
Zbone
Date:18-Aug-15
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Bad Mo-Jo...8^)
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By:
R. Hale
Date:18-Aug-15
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Albino and piebald deer are normally poor genetic specimens. I think I would get rid of her. That being said, I had a couple of piebald turkeys and let them go. Doubt it makes much difference.
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By:
Ollie
Date:18-Aug-15
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In Iowa it is illegal to shoot any piebald or albino deer. Never have heard a good explanation as to why. When I lived in North Carolina I came across a 100% albino deer on the last day of deer season and hunted for it the next season but could never get a shot. I have never seen a piebald or albino deer here in Iowa. Seems they are more common in certain areas, like northcentral North Carolina, parts of Virginia, parts of New York.
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By:
keith
Date:18-Aug-15
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It's your choice, and yours alone. For me, yes, I'm deer hunting and it's a deer.
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By:
LINK
Date:18-Aug-15
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I agree with Bou. If your going to tan the hide and display it, then shoot her. If your going to eat the meat and throw the rest away kill a different one. Not sure what I would do. I would probably try to wait until she was 5-6 then shoot her hoping she spread that genetic some. I don't think I would do a shoulder mount of a doe. It would have to be a full body mount alongside a buck but since room is hard to come by I'd probably tan the hide and put it on my wall.
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By:
Jeff Durnell
Date:18-Aug-15
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Why not? Because they're rare and neat to see. I don't feel like I need to just kill everything I see soooo.... pass.
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By:
Buck Maniac
Date:18-Aug-15
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She's four this year, and as genetics go we have 3 other albinos does in the area but haven't seen a buck yet... An albino is one of the prettiest thing walking through the woods!
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By:
r-man
Date:18-Aug-15
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I have passed every one almost, never even picked bow up, except once, a very nice 8point total white pink eyed, it was right behind a typical 10 pointer, when they got to the tree the ten walked right in the best possible spot to shoot, I waited for white one. It gave a good angle shot for me that I blew. I have passed all from then on. There pretty common in some areas. I due just enjoy watching now.
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By:
tradmt
Date:18-Aug-15
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Defective gene is what I have read about them. It is found to be associated with other defects and health issues also, in some cases.
I would kill it, eat it, and make some cool useful stuff with the hide.
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By:
tobywon
Date:18-Aug-15
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No real reason not to shoot. I respect anyone who makes the choice either way. Maybe the decision will come if she is in front of you.
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By:
Zbone
Date:18-Aug-15
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tobywon - Cool looking fawn, thanks for sharing...
Buck Maniac - Have a story about a all white buck I watched grow from a fawn to 2-12 year old branched antlered buck that the last time I laid eyes on him was almost magical, mystical, spiritual...
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By:
KJC
Date:18-Aug-15
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There's a piebald 8 point on one of the properties I hunt. He's probably about 130" deer this year. If I get a shot I'll take him. The problem is, everyone knows about this deer so pressure in the area will be intense. I'll most likely pass on hunting that farm this year.
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By:
Chad429
Date:18-Aug-15
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I'd pass, but that's just me. I wouldn't think bad about anyone who did take a piebald or albino.
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By:
tobywon
Date:18-Aug-15
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Thanks Zbone, my brother deserves credit for this one. He has seen the fawn in person and has other photos from his camera. Here is the other side, pretty cool. By the way, no decision here as this one is not in an area that we hunt. More likely to get hit by a car then shot by a hunter.
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By:
Cheque
Date:18-Aug-15
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I'd shoot.
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By:
Zbone
Date:18-Aug-15
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tobywon - Can I ask what state the fawn lives?
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By:
tobywon
Date:18-Aug-15
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CT Zbone
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By:
greenmountain
Date:18-Aug-15
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They taste the same.I , like others, Think you should shoot or not based on your feelings about it.
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By:
Zbone
Date:18-Aug-15
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Thanks tobywon...
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By:
obx
Date:18-Aug-15
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Once hunted a property and passed on the same piebald doe for eight years. Each year she had two normal fawns
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By:
Jeff Durnell
Date:18-Aug-15
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Yeah, piebalds or albinos can have brown fawns and brown does can have piebalds and albinos.... and you guys are gonna clean the gene pool by removing them? Yeah. I don't think so.
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By:
Candor
Date:18-Aug-15
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I think it's cool to see and know the deer in your area. A piebald makes it easy to identify and enjoyable to keep track of her. I hunted for years on a property that had a doe that had broken her front leg at the knee. I was going to "mercy" kill her but couldn't get a shot. The following year she had twin fawns. I watched her for 4 or 5 years. I'd see her during turkey season and deer season.
Hard for me to explain but knowing the different critters in my hunting area is something I enjoy.
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By:
stick n string
Date:18-Aug-15
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This gal will get a pass from me this year. But only because she will be 1-1/2. Only being able to get one doe tag in my area, i like to try to maximize the amount of meat i get with that tag. Next year though, if she is decent size, the fact she is piebald or that she is neat to see wont stop me if i get a good shot. They are cool, but for me, just like every other deer in the woods, they are food for my family. Like others have stated though, i respect those that feel different than me.
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By:
Full Rut
Date:19-Aug-15
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Had this one run in on me while I was setting my stand for the afternoon.... Wanted to shoot her and would have done a full body mount . No arrow knocked yet and My release was wrapped on my bow still . :( ... I was able to pull out my phone from my front pocket and snap a pic.
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By:
Zbone
Date:19-Aug-15
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Yeah Jeff Durnell, you bring up a good point... All three of those deer, plus the buck father in tobywon pix carry the recessive gene (even though it only shows in one), and so will all their offspring and so on for generations...
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By:
Bullhound
Date:19-Aug-15
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we've had piebalds on the property for six years. noticed the first doe six years ago. Have seen about 6-8 this year on the property, which is roughly 2300 acres. they only show up in a portion that is roughly 100 acres or so.
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By:
WV Mountaineer
Date:19-Aug-15
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Jeff is justifying his decision not to shoot. And, vilifying others decision to shoot. Refer to his first post for verification.
I'd shoot it and tan the hide, eat the meat, and put a picture of her in my mind and, my scrape book. And, I wouldn't loose one minutes sleep about it. It isn't a special deer, a spirit, etc... Frankly, it is a genetic monopoly that I would be thrilled to kill. However, I have got zero problems with others that may not want the same, as long as they don't do so in a condescending tone. God Bless
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By:
r-man
Date:19-Aug-15
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this is no pie, but do you think he cared, ....................... I sure would not let it walk, this about what I missed, still erks me 15yrs later
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By:
rccordrey
Date:25-Aug-15
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This one gets a pass from me.
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By:
Don
Date:25-Aug-15
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Genetic Defect
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By:
hemlock
Date:25-Aug-15
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Passed on this one all last season.
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By:
hemlock
Date:25-Aug-15
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By:
hemlock
Date:25-Aug-15
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By:
Zbone
Date:26-Aug-15
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Cool photos, thanks for sharing...
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By:
AH
Date:26-Aug-15
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By:
Jack Harris
Date:26-Aug-15
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Saw a button buck last year with same markings as this 6pt. He has made it through one deer season and one winter. I hope he makes it through at least 3-4 more before he comes by my stand.
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By:
TwoDogs@work
Date:26-Aug-15
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I have never seen a piebald, but I would treat one no different than any other deer. I am not going to attach special significance to one. In other words if I had a tag and room in my freezer I would shot one if it met all my other criteria.
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By:
stick n string
Date:26-Aug-15
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Well said, WV.
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By:
South Farm
Date:27-Aug-15
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Is this a piebald??
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By:
petedrummond
Date:27-Aug-15
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Too pretty to shoot. Had a beauty doe with white forehead blaze. Big one too. Usually led the pack. Too much fun to see to shoot.
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By:
bowriter
Date:28-Aug-15
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Seems to me, it is pretty simple. (1) Is it legal where you hunt? (2) If it is legal, do you want top shoot one? (3)If the answer is yes, then shoot.
As it is with most color variations, a piebald is a genetic inferiority. May be sacred, may be protected due to their unique colorizations. May be neat to see. But when it comes down to it, the three questions above are all that count.
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By:
DaleT
Date:28-Aug-15
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Bowriter - I am intrigued by your comment: "As it is with most color variations, a piebald is a genetic inferiority". I am curious as to what is the basis of this statement - please elaborate. Would you consider differ color phase bears to be genetically inferior?
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By:
stick n string
Date:29-Aug-15
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The piebald genetics we have seen at our place have shown to be a bit odd. My buddy shot a piebald buck a few years back, probably almost dead even 50% white, seemed to have shorter legs and the hooves were sorta long n weird. Couple others we have gotten pics of had oddities about them as well, though nothing glaringly odd. But have also gotten pics of a couple that were normal as can be on the outside.
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By:
r-man
Date:29-Aug-15
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twins from NJ, Burlington county , Hairy Haines took the pic in 2012. he used to post on here. There are hundreds of pie's around that area, I seen them every year and albino . Once I saw 6 deer together , 2 where bucks 12 pointer and a 8 the other 4 deer not sure what they were besides being pie's , no one shot them, but everyone sure see them.
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By:
WV Mountaineer
Date:29-Aug-15
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Those are awesome rman. God Bless
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By:
Dampland
Date:31-Aug-15
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My understand is that Piebalds and Albinos are genetically INFERIOR animals, so I would not have any interest in keeping them in the breeding pool on my property.
(Except I am in Wisconsin, and it is illegal to shot Albino deer. Not sure about Piebald, but have never seen one on my land in 30 years thankfully.)
If you can legally harvest this deer, than I say go for it!
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By:
Keadog
Date:01-Sep-15
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I've seen three over the years but only had a shot at this one.
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By:
roger
Date:01-Sep-15
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These "should I shoot a white/piebald/albino deer?" threads are about as ridiculous as they get.....especially when the Monday morning armchair wildlife geneticists show up.
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By:
Bohunner
Date:01-Sep-15
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I'd shoot it if it was legal and I wanted to.
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By:
loprofile
Date:01-Sep-15
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I'd name her Cecile before shooting.
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By:
loprofile
Date:01-Sep-15
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"These "should I shoot a white/piebald/albino deer?" threads are about as ridiculous as they get"
How about "What release do you shoot for elk?"
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By:
bowriter
Date:01-Sep-15
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Dale T- Ask just about any wildlife biologist. Color traits are generaly regarded as genetic mistakes, ergo an inferiority. Just thinnk, how many large antlered piebalds or albinos have you seen or heard about?
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By:
Zbone
Date:02-Sep-15
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bowwriter - I chased around a huge B&C class 5x5 for about a year... I missed him with an arrow once, and heard later another guy arrowed him in the scapula Thanksgiving weekend without penetration and although he limped after, he survived to the end of all firearm seasons and the end of bowseason, but then disappeared... Last time I laid eyes on him was January 27 of that season, but never seen him again or heard anything about him. I suspect he was poached...
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By:
DaleT
Date:02-Sep-15
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I would also add a little more regarding my concern with the comments suggesting "a piebald is a genetic inferiority..." . Not to be argumentative but I don't think this is as simple as some are trying to make it. For example - is a balding man genetically inferior to a man with a full head of hair?? The answer (IMHO) is absolutely no – we all have known men with abundant hair that are mentally deficient, died prematurely from pancreatic cancer, heart disease, etc, etc. So one has to separate out desirability from inferiority. We all could be labeled "genetically inferior" IN SOME ASPECT to say Dr. J, Jim Brown, Albert Einstein, etc. In my opinion, to justify the general label of “genetically inferior” to piebald deer, I think you need to show scientific data that demonstrates they have a substantially higher rate of parrot mouth, blindness, deafness, lameness, juvenile cancer, etc, that would cause inability to live a normal life in the wild. Being more desirable for filling one’s deer tag - does not make them genetically inferior; they would be more, or less, DESIRABLE depending on the individual hunters criteria. One last comment: the mounted buck above in Keadog's post and the one described by Zbone would certainly not be "genetically inferior" to the vast majority of normal hair-colored bucks I see here in SE PA.
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By:
KJC
Date:02-Sep-15
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DaleT, Genetically inferior in regards to coloration which is used as camoflage from predators.
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By:
AH
Date:02-Sep-15
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By:
Zbone
Date:02-Sep-15
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Here's that buck I mentioned... Although got a few pictures, none really decent mainly due to camera quality and lighting. Photo was taken July 19, 2005 (Wow its been ten years now, and that dam deer still haunts me...8^)))
I wouldn't say he was inferior, although he did have a Patriot jaw...
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By:
Zbone
Date:02-Sep-15
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Here is a video frame of him that gives an idea of how big he truely was... He was a basic 5x5 with a couple 2-3 stickers...
He was 4 years old when these pix were taken. I know because a guy passed him under his tree as a 1-1/2 basketrack 8-point...
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By:
12yards
Date:02-Sep-15
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If it were me, I'd pick a white spot that would allow my arrow to hit the vitals. Then I'd release the arrow hoping it went where I aimed.
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By:
Fuzzy
Date:02-Sep-15
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I'd shoot
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By:
MDcrazyman
Date:02-Sep-15
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If I had a deer son he would look like me!!
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By:
COLT45
Date:02-Sep-15
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R-man,
Where those near the fort dix weapons range? I was down there years ago for work and saw two white fawns everyday for a week straight. Pretty cool
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By:
DaleT
Date:02-Sep-15
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KJC - regarding " DaleT, Genetically inferior in regards to coloration which is used as camoflage from predators." Not sure I agree - I think most biologists believe that cats and dogs (representing predators) for example - while not color blind, do not have a good ability to distinguish color. Therefore, I would think the mottled, splotchy piebald pattern might actually be somewhat advantageous.
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By:
Zbone
Date:02-Sep-15
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Tell you what, I knew of a couple piebalds with a lot of white that a person had a real hard time seeing in the woods with snow on... Even if you knew it was there and trying to point out to others, without movement, they were very hard to see in a snow covered woods... But in summertime, they glow like a light...
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By:
AH
Date:02-Sep-15
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Contrary to popular belief, a piebald deer is not a cross between a normal whitetail deer and an albino. The origin of the word "piebald" comes from "pie" meaning "mixed up", and "bald" meaning "having a white spot".
Piebalds have various amounts of white and brown patches similar to a pinto pony. Some ranging from a very slight amount of white hair to almost an all white coat.
Unlike the albino deer, which has pink eyes, a pink nose, and pinkish hooves, piebald deer have normal brown eyes and nose with black hooves like a normal whitetail. Their coloration is due to a rare inherited genetic variation (defect) that affects less than one percent of the white-tailed deer population.
Many Piebalds usually display one, a combination of; or even all of the following conditions:
bowing of the nose (often called Roman nose) short legs arching spine (scoliosis) short lower mandible internal organ deformities Though rare, piebald deer are more common than the white, albino, or the extremely rare melanistic deer.
What is a Melanistic Deer?
Melanistic whitetails are very rare, even more rare than piebald or albino deer. Melanistic deer produce far too much of the pigment known as melanin which makes them much darker than your average whitetail, in fact almost black. But, by no means are all deer with melanistic traits totally black. They can be a wide range of shades, with some being quite black to others being more of a dirty brown or dark gray color.
Of the millions of deer taken each year only a few with melanism have been reported. They are so rare that most hunters don't even know they exist , making a melonistic buck a true trophy.
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By:
nijimasu
Date:02-Sep-15
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What I've told my kids on their first hunt with me (both of whom have killed a couple deer now) is that if they pull back on something, and find they don't want to shoot it for whatever reason, it's no big deal to let down. Doesn't matter if me or anyone else is yelling at them to shoot- if they don't feel it (don't like the angle, don't like the distance, just plain don't feel like taking the life or making groceries out of a critter that day) no one but them makes the decision about their shot.
I suspect this situation is the same, as long as it's legal.
I will open a can of worms, however, that I wish didn't exist. In our digital age where images can fly around the world to ignorant people continents away instantly, does it now weigh on your decision to shoot if you have to consider whether or not a digital photo of your kill might have Animal Rights Ignoramuses causing a big national stink? Conversely, would you be more apt to drop the string on a different-looking beast just to give the middle finger to those types than you might have been in a pre-interweb age?
Personally, I'm kinda oblivious to any of that. I'm just happy if I'm lucky enough to get anything legal to stand sideways in front of me long enough to settle my pin and squeeze...
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By:
bowriter
Date:02-Sep-15
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There is an area in Texas Hill Country where a large percentage of melanistic deer are killed. Some are almost coal black, others are a lighter shade. Melanism is quite common in fox squirrels. In some areas, they are common enough that there is nothing unusual about them at all.
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By:
WV Mountaineer
Date:02-Sep-15
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Dale T, whitetail genetics aren't nearly as diverse as humans. It's apples and oranges comparing the two. As far as piebalds being inferior in deer, it doesn't appear to be the case. Abnormal in deer? Yes. So, I agree with your point. Not your example. God Bless
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By:
kentuckbowhnter
Date:02-Sep-15
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I don't understand why someone would not shoot a deer because of what color it was? Deer lives don't matter.
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By:
Jeff Durnell
Date:03-Sep-15
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Deer lives don't matter? Why is that?
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By:
kentuckbowhnter
Date:03-Sep-15
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deer are food for humans and other predators. they are food just like apples and ding dongs and potato chips.
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By:
DaleT
Date:03-Sep-15
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Just when I thought I couldn't be more underwhelmed with some of these comments - I find I was wrong :(
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By:
Zbone
Date:03-Sep-15
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bowriter - The opposite end of the spectrum, "Melanism - the condition in which an unusually high concentration of melanin occurs in the skin, plumage, or pelage of an animal" is a whole other subject, requiring a new thread...8^)
Around 80% of the squirrels in my backyard, (and there are over 20) are melanistic eastern grey squirrels... Took this photo because these two are kinda unique with the rust tail. Most are jet black, but we have many shades in between... 50 shades of grey squirrels...8^)
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By:
nijimasu
Date:03-Sep-15
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is it just me, or does it look like those squirrels are seriously partying? Hemp seeds in the feeder, maybe?
