| Discuss our 2021 Food Plot Results |
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:14-Mar-21
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Pat Lefemine's Supporting Link
We moved our plot tests out of NY and into OH. Check out how well they came up, and more importantly - what they drew in!
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By:
t-roy
Date:14-Mar-21
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What all was in the Hancock Fall and Winter mix? How did you plant it? Were the seeds in that blend all similar size?
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By:
Rupe
Date:14-Mar-21
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“ My plot strategy was all wrong, and I was too cocky thinking those bucks would hang around until the rut. ”
Can you elaborate a bit on that?
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By:
dmandoes
Date:14-Mar-21
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Pat; at what rate did u plant the plots at? It cost u $800 and $380 to have them spread lime and fertilizer, what did u have to pay for lime and fertilizer?
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By:
itshot
Date:14-Mar-21
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livin the life! love it!
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:14-Mar-21
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T-Roy, here’s the tag
I used my Moultrie ATV spreader for these seeds. It worked well enough.
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:14-Mar-21
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Dmandoes, those costs were for both spreading and materials
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:14-Mar-21
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Rupe,
I was trying to finish renovating my farmhouse and I was getting so many daylight pics of my shooters that I didn’t start hunting until the third week of the October.
Also, I planted screens but I used hemp and the deer kept eating it so my screens failed. Without screens- When I hunted the beans I’d blow deer out of the field every evening.
Also had some neighbor pressure but that’s out of my control.
I thought the bucks would be running around during the rut but after all that pressure they were completely nocturnal by 11/1.
They all vanished after firearms season on 11/30.
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By:
t-roy
Date:14-Mar-21
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Did you spread it with your 3 point spreader, and spread the seed by itself or did you mix it in with some kind of media?
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:14-Mar-21
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T-Roy, not sure what you are referring to. ??
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By:
t-roy
Date:14-Mar-21
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I’ve had marginal success (getting a uniform stand) seeding blends with different sized seeds. The hopper has to be open far enough for the bigger seeds to feed out, and the smaller seeds seem to feed out too quickly, unless you can drive fast enough. Some guys will mix the blend in with some sort of media, like fertilizer, sand, kitty litter, etc, so they get a more uniform/even seeding. I seed my brassicas blend seed, minus the radishes, then I’ll go over the same plot with the radish seed. The radishes aren’t a lot bigger than the rest of the brassica seed, but big enough to be an issue (for me at least)
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:14-Mar-21
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Yeah, it wasn’t perfect but it was good enough. It was only a couple acres and that atv spreader worked pretty well.
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Date:14-Mar-21
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Pat,
I seed the same mix minus the chicory but a ladino as well as crimson.
Troy,
Hopefully Pat doesn’t mind, but here is how I do it, and will be this late summer on a 4 acre plot.
After discing, I broadcast each of the following with my 3 point spreader, each of them separately to obtain an even distribution and avoid bigger/heavier seeds going out first if mixed together...
Rye grain
Oats
Winter peas
Then I use my 12’X8’ drag harrow to cover everything.
Then I broadcast, again separately, with my ATV electric spreader the following...
Ladino clover
Crimson Clover
Winter beets and sugar bulbs
Radish
Turnips
I seed the clover heavy because my last step is to cultipack which might place some of the clover too deep.
I used to cultipack before the clover and after, but the cost of fuel and time was not justifiable IMO.
I did this on a 2 acre plot last year, and three weeks ago seeded some more ladino. After mowing the rye down in June it will be a solid clover plot if similar results to previous years occur.
Plots look good Pat, you have it going on for sure!
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By:
IdyllwildArcher
Date:15-Mar-21
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Pat, I'm curious after seeing the quality of the deer on your Ohio farm and your numbers, if you're considering selling your NY property and when your retirement goals are and if Ohio has changed where you think you'll be upon retirement at all.
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By:
dmandoes
Date:15-Mar-21
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$380 for 4 tons of fertilizer spread, what was the fertilizer? Thanks
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:15-Mar-21
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Here you go, from the Ag soil guy that came out to my place:
"Here are the recommendations for field 1100 (14 Acres) that is going to be planted to soybeans... 400 pounds per acre of 9-23-30 / 1 ton per acre of high calcium lime. Give me a call when you get a chance."
I spread the fertilizer myself. I called in the mix at the coop and it was waiting for me in a spreader that I could pull to my farm with my pickup. Then I hooked up the spreader to my tractor and spread it myself. It was the easiest lime and fertilizer job I've ever experienced.
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By:
Wildan2
Date:15-Mar-21
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Just got my delivery from Pheasants Forever;our third year using them.Excellent seed at decent prices and free delivery.All the wild life appreciate it.
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By:
KHNC
Date:15-Mar-21
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This some great info Pat! I currently have frost seeded Durana on my new property and plot that i cleared. Also, broadcasted 50lbs of winter wheat, to hopefully have some growth by turkey season. Its coming up pretty good at the moment. The clover is just showing signs of life as well. Im afraid the weeds and grass will dominate by summer. If so, i already have glyphosate in place to spray and start over. I figured anything i can do now will help for spring turkey. Have since cleared two additional plots on the property. My buddy has a trac-hoe, and we have been putting it and my tractor to use lately!
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By:
edbfour
Date:16-Mar-21
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I also put food plots in Ohio. The Hancock Killer Clover did well, growing and bringing in deer. It is getting tired now so I winter seeded it with Renovation and see what happens. The power company pretty much destroyed it putting in new power lines. I have not winter seeded before. Also, winter seeded switch grass on another clover edge that has been sprayed all season. This fall I sprayed out the overwintering weeds in all clover. In august I planted Antler Kings winter rye and on an edge mixed in their clover. Did well with deer and growing. I noticed the rye takes the beating while clover grows. Been planting winter rye in the fall for several years and when I plant clover I will mix in the winter rye and spray the rye out before summer. Now I only plant clover in fall mixed with winter rye.
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By:
Rupe
Date:16-Mar-21
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Pat, I honestly don’t see that as being cocky. Considering time and distance restraints I’m not sure you had a lot of options. As to the deer going completely nocturnal, I certainly wouldn’t have anticipated that.
For screens I like Egyptian Wheat. Yeah it has to be planted annually but I planted cedar trees along the road to block road view of fields. They will take a few years to get tall enough to make totally private, but meanwhile the EW was over 10 feet tall and worked great. Plus the quail and pheasant love the seeds.
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By:
t-roy
Date:16-Mar-21
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You said you rebuilt your 7000 planter. What all did you have to do to it? Also, not sure if you’re aware of these guys, but Shoup is THE best place I’ve found to order all kinds equipment parts, especially John Deere planter parts, well worth the money.
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By:
RIT
Date:16-Mar-21
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"Also, I planted screens but I used hemp and the deer kept eating it so my screens failed. Without screens- When I hunted the beans I’d blow deer out of the field every evening."
I was a little surprised by this. Hunting destination food sources in the evening without amazing entry/exit is difficult at best. In my experience the does and young bucks will tolerate that intrusion but big mature bucks won't put up with it more than once. If your screens were in place would those stand locations have worked?
What is the plan going forward? Obviously a different annual screen but something permanent has to be in the works right? You can get 4-5' out of switchgrass the first year. Cave in rock is all the rage but my kanlow switch hit 6' the first year without much effort. A 8' wide section of switch is cheap and permanent and if you did add something like EW behind it you would have a solid screen. I would still want something I didn't have to plant every year. Cedars are fantastic unless you wanted to plant apple trees that are not CAR resistant but there are a million crab/apple trees that are very CAR resistant.
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:16-Mar-21
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T-Roy,
I paid $1500 for the 4-row 7000 with dry fertilizer bins.
I had to replace some opener disks, scrapers, closing wheels, and hydraulic hoses to get it to plant last year. I dropped about $800.
This year I am rebuilding the fertilizer boxes. New spouts and augers and 4 fertilizer blades. Another $700.
And I dressed it up with new paint.
All my parts came from Shoups.
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By:
Jeff Holchin
Date:16-Mar-21
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Pat, I bought an old 4-row 7000 last summer and it needs a major overhaul, like you have done/are doing. Lots of guys will cut it down the middle and make two 3-Pt hitch planters, but I think I like it better as a pull-behind planter. Thanks for the tip about Shoups.
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:16-Mar-21
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Rit, the target bucks were hitting one small tree belt in the absolute worst spot between my beans and a larger bean field. I knew slipping in there was risky but they were not going anywhere else. So I took a chance. They were already getting nervous from neighboring pressure so I didn’t think I had much to lose. This was the last week of October.
I should also add that baiting is legal but I decided not to use bait. So I was strictly hunting patterns. Got my last daylight pic that week then all nocturnal before they completely vanished a month later. I had zero confidence of killing them by playing it safe. I gambled, it didn’t work.
As far as the screens, I never planted screens before and picked the wrong crop. Hemp was a poor Choice. I was told they wouldn’t touch it inside when there are acres of soybeans a foot away. Wrong. They hammered the hemp. I planted EW in August but it only got 5’ before growth halted.
I’m planting field corn next year along with EW. I’m also going to screen off my neighbor’s border and stay out of my big field this season.
Still working up a design. What I did last year didn’t work. Still learning.
The good news is I had 58 different bucks on the property and 53 I know survived. I should have 6 shooters next year assuming none of last year’s shooters return.
So I did something right.
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:16-Mar-21
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Jeff, good luck with your build. Let me know if you need any help. If you don’t have a oxy-acetylene torch you should pick one up. Some of those rusty parts will need to be torched off.
Also, if you’re planting beans and don’t have bean meters definitely go with the Shoup brush meters, they are the absolute best.
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Date:16-Mar-21
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Nice!
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By:
IdyllwildArcher
Date:16-Mar-21
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Think you'll be hunting more in October next year? When's your opener?
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:16-Mar-21
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I’m planning to be hunting opening day in late September. They were in consistent feeding patterns then with no pressure.
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By:
t-roy
Date:16-Mar-21
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Is there quite a bit of other ag fields near you, (or neighbors food plotting) or are you the only game in town in your area? Curious to see how many sheds you end up finding in or near your beans this spring.
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:16-Mar-21
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I’m surrounded by hundreds of acres of ag fields. They harvested the 2nd week of October last year.
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By:
Jeff Holchin
Date:17-Mar-21
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Thanks Pat, I will be contacting you for advice if I get in a jam with the 7000 restoration. Your plots did great, I like the scientific way you approached the project, but it seems to me that you need to seriously reduce the doe numbers. Agree?
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By:
BullBuster
Date:17-Mar-21
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I’d be curious to see how a field of pure cereal grains would compete against that smorgasbord late season.
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Date:17-Mar-21
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Pat,
Are your beans harvested?
You use your no-till on your other farm, which do you like better?
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:17-Mar-21
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Jeff, yes. I agree. I'm in a 3 deer unit and one of those tags I can use on a buck. I shot two does and held my buck tag until the very last day which was 2/7. Unfortunately, I was unable to tell if the deer that showed up at dusk was a doe or a buck that lost its antlers so I never filled my 'either' tag. My neighbors and I killed 12 does last season.
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:17-Mar-21
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HFW - I did not harvest my beans. I always till, I only did no-till once and I was not impressed with my results.
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Date:17-Mar-21
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Wow, good for you on not harvesting! That’s dedication to conservation, thanks for doing it.
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:17-Mar-21
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Don't give me too much credit. I had no idea what 18 acres of soybeans was worth until one of my sponsors did the math for me last week. I was wondering why my neighbor looked at me like I had six heads when I told him I was going to let the deer eat 850 bushels of beans.
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By:
JohnMC
Date:17-Mar-21
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Pat after owning your land and doing the work on food plots would you rather shoot a 140" buck there or 180" on your guided hunt in KS.
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:17-Mar-21
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The question is apples/oranges. I go on guided hunts to experience hunting that I can't get anywhere else and to have fun. The kill is the goal, but not the only goal. I love it all; stalking, hunting stands, drives, and yes - even baiting. It's thrilling, and fun as hell and I make no apologies for that.
My passion for land ownership and improving it for whitetails has nothing to do with killing bucks. The kill is a fringe benefit. I love the entire process of habitat improvement and that includes planning, planting, watching it grow, monitoring what shows up, hunting, and then learning what I did right and wrong. I even love fixing and maintaining tractors and implements.
If I'm being totally honest, I like the monitoring part the best. I can't tell you guys how thrilling it was to see my first shooter buck show up in Ohio on trail cam. The season was a total success after that pic. 100k pics later I can tell you that I'm beyond thrilled with my decision to buy this ground.
Oh, and I passed a 140 -8 last year 4 times. Never pulled a string back on a buck. No regrets.
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By:
t-roy
Date:17-Mar-21
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Have any of your top bucks showed back up on camera in the past couple of months?
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By:
Rupe
Date:17-Mar-21
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Pat, the first man, Adam, was created to tend the Garden of Eden and manage the animals created for him. I think deep down inside we all still carry that original design and desire to be caretakers of the land. It’s built into our DNA.
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Date:17-Mar-21
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Neat point Rupe!
Pat, I had 10 acres of beans and had them harvested. We are in different income brackets, but I am still impressed.
Did you prep all 18 acres before planting or did a local farmer do it for you? If so do you mind sharing equipment used like tractor size and hp, disc or?
FYI, I had 4 acres of beans two years ago I left standing, and probably a third of the pods were left by green-up. Were all of yours used? Just curious as to density comparisons.
Thanks.
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:17-Mar-21
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T-Roy, I think one of them showed in January. No sign of the other four.
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:17-Mar-21
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Frank, I do everything. Prep, planting, spraying and mowing.
I purchased a used, 100HP New Holland Powerstar 100 tractor, a four row 7000 Deere Planter, a 12' White travel disk, a 12' Deere Cultimulcher, a 20' boom sprayer, and a 3-pt mounted spreader from Rural King.
I have about 40% of my beans left standing.
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By:
t-roy
Date:17-Mar-21
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Do you get any help from friends or family members on your plots and other projects, or do you do pretty much everything by yourself?
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:17-Mar-21
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It’s only me T-Roy.
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By:
t-roy
Date:17-Mar-21
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Pretty much the same for me. On a rare occasion, I’ll get a half a day’s worth of work out of a different buddy or two, but they’re usually so swamped with their own projects, that they can’t help me very often. Fortunately, my wife is really good about coming and picking me up, or dropping me off at one or the other of my farms, if I drive the tractor over there.
Pretty tough to get it all done solo, but it’s all self inflicted. One of the biggest negatives about sitting in a tree stand, is you have lots of time to think about all of the new projects for next spring!
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By:
Ambush
Date:17-Mar-21
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Well t-roy, I'm an actual farmer now, and have the tractor to prove it! Maybe if I start now I can be there to help you out with the spring planting.
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By:
t-roy
Date:17-Mar-21
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Rod....if you can get your homemade cultipacker on the plane as a carry-on, I’ll pick you up at the airport!
On second thought....if you start right now, and come across in International Falls, there’s a good chance the border may be open by then. If it’s still closed, just tell them you’re an essential worker.....or better yet, an undocumented laborer! Those guys don’t seem to be have any issues getting across....
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Date:18-Mar-21
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Pat,
Thanks. That is nice equipment but still a lot of work. I am impressed!
Glad some of your pods went unused as well. Makes me think the density here is not too bad.
I appreciate all of you guys sharing, it helps me strategize better. Seems like I never quite get it to the level I want! Thanks.
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By:
goyt
Date:18-Mar-21
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Pat, Thanks for the great write-up. Being in the same area I find your results very useful. I buy some of my seeds from Merit Seed, nice people. I bet that we use some of the same people for lime and the fertilizer with the buggy.
I have a lot of interest in your success with the Hancock Fall and Winter Mix. I frost seeded my clover plots around March 1st, at least the ones I am keeping. I have plans convert a lot of my plots over grain rye or brassicas with half each in each plot. I already have some of them laid out with staking. My plan was to spray for weeds and then plant the brassicas in August and then come back and spray and plant the other half of the plots with grains around Labor Day. Doing it that way I would think that the results and yields would be better. However it is probably about twice as much work as just using the Hancock Fall and Winter Mix in the whole plots. Once I get the equipment to a plot it does not take much more time to do it all and it sure makes the turns easier. Do you feel that the results that you got with the Hancock mix supports going with it over splits plots of grains and brassicas? Before reading your article I would have thought no.
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By:
Missouribreaks
Date:18-Mar-21
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Very good thread, thank you for all the informative posts.
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By:
Ambush
Date:18-Mar-21
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Interesting your adversity to no till and obviously formed by experience. Do you think that is more to do with the specific crops you prefer, or the soil or weed conditions? Or just straight up yield, year over year?
Troy, with the beat up tiller on the back, the culvert culti-packer in the homemade front end loader and a salvaged beach umbrella taped on, border patrol will think I'm just a lost Mexican farm laborer trying to get home.
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By:
lewis
Date:18-Mar-21
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Pat any pictures of your screen planting I assume you are planting a natural no see thru fence between you and your neighbor. I am thinking about doing that in Tennessee.Good luck Lewis
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By:
Jeff Holchin
Date:18-Mar-21
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Thanks Pat, I will be contacting you for advice if I get in a jam with the 7000 restoration. Your plots did great, I like the scientific way you approached the project, but it seems to me that you need to seriously reduce the doe numbers. Agree?
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By:
buckhammer
Date:18-Mar-21
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850 bushels of soybeans at todays closing price of around $14 a bushel would bring you $11,900.00. Hunters who have an understanding wife..........priceless
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:18-Mar-21
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She may not be as understanding when she reads your post. LOL!
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By:
t-roy
Date:18-Mar-21
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If you’re producing 60+bushel/acre beans, especially after the deer browsing on them all winter....you better quit your day job and start farming full time!
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:18-Mar-21
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No clue how many bushels/acre we had before the deer started munching them but I’m guessing 30-40% still remain. Nowhere near 850 bushel now, and no idea what our real production was. But I will say that my crop looked better than the commercial crop on the adjacent leased field.
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By:
Mark Watkins
Date:18-Mar-21
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Great write up, info and insight every year....keep it rolling Pat!
In light of all your spare time, will you come to MN and plant my 15 acres of beanS?
Mark
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By:
Pat Lefemine
Date:19-Mar-21
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Thanks Mark! As soon as I’m done planting NY, OH and PA I’ll swing buy. ;-)
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By:
Loprofile
Date:19-Mar-21
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No till has some advantages in building soil, conserving moisture, and reducing compaction. These can be important in poor soils but not so much in prime farmland
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By:
goyt
Date:20-Mar-21
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Pat,
What application rate did you use with the Hancock fall and winter mix? Did you disc, seed and then roll? The plot looks so good!
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By:
lewis
Date:20-Mar-21
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Still would like to know about your screen plantings.Good luck Lewis
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By:
lewis
Date:20-Mar-21
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Another seed company I had good results with was Welters located in Iowa. I have zero affiliation with that company. I also use Hancock seed with good results.Good luck Lewis
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By:
t-roy
Date:20-Mar-21
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I haven’t bought much seed from Welters, but they are always very helpful with information.
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By:
Plant Stuff
Date:26-Mar-21
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Starting tomorrow with cover chicory mix. And a dozen hybrid poplars for future stand locations. Had some success last year with early season chicory and no luck with late season turnips and radishes.
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By:
Plant Stuff
Date:26-Mar-21
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When I say no luck I mean it didn't produce deer. Everythinggrew great. I did learn that I tend to seed to thickly. Tedd
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By:
Plant Stuff
Date:26-Mar-21
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By:
Plant Stuff
Date:26-Mar-21
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By:
Plant Stuff
Date:26-Mar-21
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By:
JSW
Date:29-Mar-21
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Thanks for doing this Pat. I really like how you've tried to quantify what worked best and at what times of the year. Very useful information that will probably get me out of my routine this year.
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By:
Stressless
Date:31-Mar-21
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#1- By: dmandoes Date:14-Mar-21 Pat; at what rate did u plant the plots at? ...?
------------------------------ #2 By: goyt Date:20-Mar-21 Pat,
What application rate did you use with the Hancock fall and winter mix? ...
----------------------------- #3 Pat - What Rate did you plant Hancock at?
Thanks, Stressless
