Thoughts? annual over seeding perennial
Food Plots
Messages posted to thread:
Stressless 12-Sep-18
MK111 12-Sep-18
Stressless 12-Sep-18
drycreek 12-Sep-18
happygolucky 12-Sep-18
chasin wtails 12-Sep-18
Stressless 13-Sep-18
Stressless 13-Sep-18
chasin wtails 14-Sep-18
Stressless 15-Sep-18


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Lots of great info on here and this subject is one area I haven't seen to much discussion on. I'll put my observations on here and would like other ideas or confirmations or other observations.

When establishing a perennial plot an annual seeding to relive grazing pressure or/and provide the emerging perennial some structure/shade is called a nursery crop. I did that in the fall of 2016 and followed it in the thread = http://www.bowsite.com/db/forums/thread.cfm?forum=4&threadid=462057&MESSAGES=61&FF=4 - I won't rehash that but for folks that haven't read it, it establishes the background for this discussion.

Now, 2018, I've got established perennial plots, mostly clovers with chicory and alfalfa that will be frost/winter burnt and done right around the rut in Ohio - 7 Nov. Last year, 2017 in mid Sep I planted an over-seed of annual winter hardy grasses, Oats, Cereal Rye and awnless Winter Wheat right on top of my perennials; 50# total /acre.

It was Fabulous. Magical. As the clover, chicory and alfalfa got blistered by the frosts my annuals came up and gave the browsers fodder that kept them fed, healthy and local thru the late fall/winter and early spring. Greening up thoroughly in mid-Mar 30 days prior to the woods popping or the perennials making much headway. (the Pic of Utilization is from 8 Apr 2017).

SO for discussion I'm planning of overseeding a mix of 50/50 Oats and awnless winter wheat and not plant cereal rye this year, 50# / Acre into my well performing and established perennial plots. This year I plan to let the Wheat bolt, mature and then cut about the 2nd week of June, giving the heads time to ripen and add to my management plan - mast producing goals. The oats are not winter hardy and will get zapped when the ground freezes below the roots - usually early Dec.

Looking for opinions or/and discussion: What am I doing wrong? What do I need to take into account that isn't laid out above? What do I need to add to the plan to help everything laid out? All plots perennials are N fixers, lime and fertilizers are on-track with plots soil analysis. This would be anyone that is considering or would now consider overseeding an annual into a perennial plot.

Best Regards, Stressless

By: MK111

If you are in heavy turkey area I have found the turkeys eat almost every large grain laying on the soil surface.

That's the result here in SW Ohio. Couple years ago I top dressed 90 lbs of oats right before a heavy rain forecast. It didn't rain hard and 2 flocks of turkeys moved in and not one oat plant grew.

For me the grain would have to be drilled below the surface.

I plant oats as a fall crop every year but I roto till the soil, sow the seed and then use a drag to cover the oats. I did this 2 weeks ago and have a decent crop of oats coming up.


Stressless's MOBILE embedded Photo

Yup, I have turkeys - Yup - I still get grains wheat, oats, rye up. Both are thick, both years. So I do not think those issues are mutually exclusive. I also asked about over seeding not just making an annual oat plot as you state you have done. This was no bare dirt rolled not drilled the first year, you can see the grains coming up thick, didn't get all eaten by the birds.


You're lucky you have turkeys, and not hogs. The damn hogs would eat all your seed and leave bomb craters in your plot. Did I ever tell y'all that I hate hogs ?


I broadcast into my perennial clover plots for the fall. I have high deer density and therefore have some bare spots and lower chewed down clovers. First, I broadcast some brassicas in July (my plots are in the UP of MI). I time it around a rain. Around the 2nd week of August, I broadcast winter rye and oats into those plots as well. Again, a timely rain is all that is needed. I don't cultipack it at all. It all grows great. The next spring, the winter rye comes back giving the deer more to eat while protecting some of the clover from the summer heat until the rye dies off. Do the birds and other critters get some seed? Sure. I just up the seeding rate.


Stressless have you overseeded winter wheat into your clover before and let it mature? Reason I ask is I have clover planted as a firebreak around my prairie grasses but was going to disc up a long narrow section and plant winter wheat, let it mature, and hope to keep some turkeys on my place this next spring plus feed any pheasants and quail that may be sticking around. A friend had a winter wheat plot this spring and said he always had birds in it.

I am wondering if I do as you described above broadcast the wheat then maybe roll the seed in to keep the turkeys that are on me now from picking up the seed. Maybe roll it after a rain to push the seed into the dirt. It it would work then I would not lose the clover by discing it up. Would that work or anyone have any experience of doing it.


Stressless's MOBILE embedded Photo

Chasin WT - gotta add two pics to tell it.

I planted winter wheat Sep '17 (Sunburst is the locally developed awnless variety) and you'll want to plant awnless: https://www.qdma.com/deer-prefer-awnless-wheat/ ... but the local farmer I have cut the plots prior to them maturing to a full grain. They were coming up great - that pic at the beginning of this thread is my plot grazed chin high first week of Apr '18.

In Sep '16 when I established my plots I planted cereal rye, and oats, that's the pic above, in early May. I used about 80#/acre in Sep '16 as a nursery crop for my clover, alfalfa and chicory. In Sep '17 I used about 60#/acre mix of oats and winter wheat. In '16 I rolled it, lots stuck to my roller, in '17 I just walked with handheld spreader - both worked just fine.

Winter Wheat will yield about 2,000# of great forage an acre and I believe it's what held significant turkey this spring, I killed two mature toms with a bow in two days.

This year I will plant in a long week, and not cut it until it fully matures 3rd or 4th week of June. and the fawns that bed in it are big enough to run from the brushhog, might still putt though each first to flush them with the bike...

So the pic above is from early May '17, rye and some oats that made it through the winter growing up through the clover.


Stressless's MOBILE embedded Photo

This pic, above, is the same plot, about a month later Jun '17 with matured seed heads, they weren't browsed hard as the variety I planted wasn't awness.

My estimate, based on the way it performed last winter/spring, is Winter Wheat, will hold thru the winter, green in Feb-March, head in late May and ripen in early June. I'll cut in latish June to add compost to the plot and with ~ 4 acres add aprrox 3 Tons of great fodder to my management plan for about $130 and 3 hours of work. I'd fertilize (only P and K) and cut my plot in June so the only thing I add is walking the plots with seed in Sep. As stated no need to roll it in from what I saw last year.


Thanks for the info. I think I will go that route of broadcasting it into the edge of my clover firebreak. That way I don't loose my clover in that strip.


Stressless's MOBILE embedded Photo

Chasin WT - for what it's worth, I broadcast into the entire plot, it does not harm the perennials. This is the same perennial clover, alfalfa chicory plot, in the heat of July and after being cut a little to close, and after being broadcast (overseeded) 16-17 winter with rye and oats, and 17-18 with winter wheat and oats, both years I had planted in Sep and cut in late May or June, your clover will do just fine broadcast, overseeded, with oats or strait winter wheat... I'm just asking the community if they do this and what results they see both from their plots and the targeted species. My results from this have been outstanding.

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