| spotted fawn in April |
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By:
Bear
Date:11-Apr-16
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Caught these pics April 2 fawn born to late to shed spots when cold weather hit had this happen in 2007 to another late fawn
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By:
Bear
Date:11-Apr-16
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Caught these pics April 2 fawn born to late to shed spots when cold weather hit had this happen in 2007 to another late fawn
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By:
Bear
Date:11-Apr-16
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Caught these pics April 2 fawn born to late to shed spots when cold weather hit had this happen in 2007 to another late fawn
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By:
Zbone
Date:11-Apr-16
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Bear - I assume this is in Minnesota?
If so, good example of late born fawn surviving winter in northern latitudes, thanks for sharing...
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By:
BagginBigguns
Date:11-Apr-16
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What's the buck to doe ratio in that area? When does remain un-bred until the tertiary (or later) rut, the subsequent birth is late, too.
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By:
RedOctober
Date:11-Apr-16
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This is a picture I got of a late born fawn taken in march a few yrs ago.
He ended up surviving and not surprisingly he was a small spike by the following sept. He was easy to pick out from the group because he was so small. If he lived past that first yr I can't say. He disappeared after the hunting season began.
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By:
RedOctober
Date:11-Apr-16
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Heres another picture of him. He doesn't look too unhealthy considering it was a hard winter that yr. Like I said though, he was easy to pick out from the other deer.
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By:
Zbone
Date:11-Apr-16
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RedOctober - What state, Michigan?
Got a bunch of northern spotted fawns photos during winter, and getting the impression its not as uncommon as most think... My assumption that most of these late born fawns are due to doe fawns being bred during their first estrus as late as March or even April, and nothing to do with buck to doe ratio in northern latitudes... I imagine survival rate depends upon severity of the winter, available food sources, predator numbers, etc...
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By:
EmbryOklahoma
Date:11-Apr-16
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So, if fawns usually lose their spots in around 5 months, would it be safe to say these were born around late October through November?
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By:
Zbone
Date:11-Apr-16
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"would it be safe to say these were born around late October through November?"... Yeah, would be my guess a March or April conception... Figure 29 weeks gestation...
You also bring up a good point of "lose their spots"... How do fawns loose their spots? Or is it shed their hair, meaning 2 shedding a year, spring and fall... So if a fawn was born late, say after September, it'll likely keep spots until the following spring when they shed their winter coats for the red???
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By:
12yards
Date:11-Apr-16
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No way would it survive if it was born in October or November. And no way would it be as big as it is. I'm wondering if there could be some other developmental issue with this fawn.
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By:
HerdManager
Date:11-Apr-16
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A few years ago saw a giant doe with the tiniest little spotted fawn in November. I really wanted to take the doe, but it would be a death sentence for the fawn, so I let them walk. I am thinking the fawn was born in October. It wasn't 15 pounds.
Not even sure how that doe got bred that late in the spring, as bucks don't really have the hormones going that time of year?
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By:
Zbone
Date:12-Apr-16
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"No way would it survive if it was born in October or November.".... That's a bold statement, and I'll take that bet...
HerdManager - There was just a thread the other day here about a fully crowned buck tending a hot doe... I'll see if I can find it to bring to top...
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By:
12yards
Date:12-Apr-16
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I just don't think a fawn born in Oct or Nov could survive in MN. Plus it is similar size to a normal coated fawn. It isn't that small.
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By:
RedOctober
Date:12-Apr-16
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Zbone, yes the pictures I posted were taken in MI.
I agree that late born fawns are not as uncommon as people think.
I notice that fawns born in may and june usually loose their spots sometime around early sept.
I have seen fawns at the deer check in stations taken during the nov firearm season that you could still see spots under the thicker hair, if you looked closely. Its like their hair grows thicker and hides the spots underneath. But I don't believe they actually "shed" their hair till the following spring.
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By:
RedOctober
Date:12-Apr-16
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This is a picture I took of a buck in late jan this year. I do a lot of filming of deer year round. Mostly I see does and fawns from mid sept through jan. Then for some reason like clock work every year I notice it. Around the end of jan I start seeing bucks again.
Now I know it could just be that hunting pressure has let up and the bucks are out moving trying to find food. Maybe they're not as afraid to move during daylight. However, I'm of the opinion that theres more to it than just hunger, and lack of hunting pressure.
If you look closely at my picture you can see this buck is "flemaning" Not sure if I spelled that right, but I think you know what I mean.
When bucks do that it means they smell something in the air. Or they are checking the air for certain scents.
I am of the opinion the reason I start seeing bucks every year like clock work in late jan is that there are still does coming into estrus. And I notice this same sort of behavior from the bucks right through the end of feb.
Ever notice fresh rubs and scrapes in the middle of Feb? I have.
I think that because of the way we structure deer hunting seasons we have somewhat changed the breeding habits of the deer.
The buck to doe ratios are so that one buck has a difficult time servicing all the does in such a short time frame.
The whole breeding thing is not a short activity. The actual mounting thing may be short, but the time leading up to, and the time afterwards is quite a lengthy thing. I'll wager a buck can easily spend a 24hr period servicing just one doe. Add to that the fact that he has to breed them during a time when there is a lot of hunting pressure.
Consequently I think a lot of does go unbred during oct nov and dec. The few adult bucks simply cant do it all in such a short window. And more and more, does are still cycling well into the winter months after the hunting seasons have subsided. .
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By:
Zbone
Date:12-Apr-16
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12yards - "I just don't think a fawn born in Oct or Nov could survive in MN"... Think what you want, but Bear's photos are proof... He also posted similar spotted fawn pictures in winter up there a few years ago if I remember right...
It's hard to say from photos how big the spotted fawn actually is, but from looking at the stems and blades of grass, he doesn't look very big... The other deer in the first photo could be a normal size fawn, or if it is his mother, she may be small too being late born herself and first time estrus breeding...
RedOctober - Seen a mature buck in full velvet during July, flemen like that a doe once...
"could still see spots under the thicker hair, if you looked closely. Its like their hair grows thicker and hides the spots underneath"
Hmmm, ya know, never really paid that much attention to normal half grown fawns coats like that before, but you bring up an interesting subject... From now on going to look a little better... Thanks for sharing...
Now that we've opened that can of worms, do deer shed their hair in September, or does new winter coats just grow over top of the summer red??? I don't really know, never killed a deer in early to mid September, I just assumed they shed like some are now in the spring, but yeah, shedding hair only once makes sense... Now I think about it, I shot a few the last days of September and first few days of October and they seemed to have long sporadic hairs coming out...
But boy, now some behind my house are starting to look scruffy with patches of winter hair missing...
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By:
12yards
Date:12-Apr-16
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You may be right Zbone, but he doesn't have proof of a fawn born in October or November. He has proof that a fawn still had spots in April, not when it was born. Fawns are 6 to 8 pounds when born. I can't imagine a fawn growing that much during winter (even a fairly easy one) when their metabolism is at a low.
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By:
Zbone
Date:12-Apr-16
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Yeah, hard to say actual birth date, but would be interesting to know...
A while back a guy here had a trail cam pix of a new born fawn (I believe it was September birth) and believe it was in upstate NY. Anyhow, he got other pix of it later for a couple months and showed how it grew while still in spots... I'll see if I can find the thread and bring it to the top...
Don't think their metabolism starts to slow down till around Christmas or New Years. Most years that's when they start showing up behind the house at the backyard feeder, unless we get early heavy snows, then they'll show up earlier... BTW, with things greening up here now they aren't coming as regular to the feeder. I imagine by the end of the month none will be coming...
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By:
Zbone
Date:13-Apr-16
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12yards - I brought that thread to the top, check out "Age this Fawn".... I guess that NY fawn might have been a August or early Sept birth...
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By:
12yards
Date:13-Apr-16
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That's amazing! I agree with you probably a fawn of a fawn, conceived late and born late. Was that a northern deer?
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By:
Zbone
Date:13-Apr-16
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Yeah, upstate NY from my understanding...
As said, am beginning to believe these late born northern winter spotted fawns are not as unusual as once thought... Survival rate likely due to harshness and conditions of winter, available food sources, predator numbers, etc...
I've saved bunch of pictures over the years of spotted northern fawns and if I get a chance will try to find them and post... The ones on this thread I just added to my collection...8^)
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By:
12yards
Date:13-Apr-16
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I've seen some small spotted fawns around opener in mid-September here in central MN, but always assumed they would lose their spots later in the fall. Maybe not after all. On the other hand, I've seen some very small fawns in the fall that were totally w/o spots. Strange phenomenon for sure.
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By:
Zbone
Date:14-Apr-16
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"seen some very small fawns in the fall that were totally w/o spots"... Yeah me too...8^)
Personally, I think they have to be born after September to maintain spots throughout winter like those posted above. Dunno, just a guess...
Our bowseason begins the last Saturday of September, and personally have never seen a spotted fawn then, but wish I would cause I think they'd make a cool looking back quiver, but unfortunately this one did not...8^) It's actually the smallest deer I ever killed in my life...
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By:
Twanger
Date:14-Apr-16
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I think that most fawns do not completely loose their spots the first winter. Although the spots are hard to see if I look on either side of the spine from the top it is common for me to see a row of spots on a fawn. The spots are very subdued and almost impossible to see from the side at any distance.
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By:
12yards
Date:14-Apr-16
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I've actually shot some 1 1/2 year old bucks years ago that I could see a line of spots on. If I find some of those pics, I'll scan them and post.
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By:
Zbone
Date:14-Apr-16
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Deerfarmer buddy of mine had a litter of white fawns, (yeah, a litter - triplets...8^))) Anyhow, if you looked real close while handling them you could actually see spots that were a different shade of white...
