| CT fawn study: terrifying |
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By:
GIT R DONE
Date:08-Dec-15
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That's crazy
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By:
ahunter55
Date:08-Dec-15
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sounds like they need to open season on predators. I'm guessing the decline where I hunt (Midwest)is from "all" the Coyotes I see.
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By:
deerman406
Date:08-Dec-15
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Maybe that will finally make them realize that a year round season on coyotes is drastically needed. I know here in NY they take a lot of fawns. 25 out of 28 is crazy high but I can see it happening. I know in the area I hunt several landowners let a guy on to the properties called the Coyote Whisperer and he killed a ton of them the last few years and guess what, our deer herd really came back the couple years, It is not rocket science but to our DEC it seems to be. Shawn
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By:
HuntHard
Date:08-Dec-15
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That's crazy! I must be lucky at the private land I hunt in NW Indiana. Year over year I have 3 different mature does that have twins every year. Two years in a row now all 6 fawns each season thats 12 total have survived to hutning season from birth. I took one of those mature does this season.
I trapped 3 coyotes and shot one this year so far. We have them but in my opinion they are not crazy thick or overpopulated.
3 out of 28 is just bad!!!!
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By:
HuntHard
Date:08-Dec-15
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The three I trapped was last year by the way.
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By:
Mike Lawrence
Date:08-Dec-15
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Did they address mortality related to collaring the fawns?
In MN, the recent moose calf study saw about a 20% abandonment rate by the mothers on the calves that were collared. Depending on how quickly they got back to the fawns it can be hard to tease out what mortality was caused by predators or predators just scavenging.
Either way, that mortality rate is crazy high. Even with the collaring mortality and wolves, the moose calve study in MN still saw a 30% survival rate through their first winter.
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By:
Griz34
Date:08-Dec-15
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What is this going to mean for the CT Mobile live hunts?
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By:
Inshart
Date:08-Dec-15
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Speaking of predators .......... I live in MN, 2 miles out of town.
I had shot a deer, skinned it and placed the hide outside next to my garage.
The next day I was outside and noticed very large timber wolf tracks in the snow, they came out of the woods next to my house and then up to the deer hide. Surprised it didn't drag it back in the woods.
The tracks then walked along my garage - about 3 feet from the doors - around my deck and into my food plot where my trail camera took this picture.
I've had timbers in my yard in the past, but not quite that close and certainly not in the middle of the day.
No fear ...
I just read that the "scientists" and MN DNR agree that they do not need to be listed any longer in MN, WI, and MI.
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By:
Zbone
Date:09-Dec-15
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All I can say about the fawn study is "WOW"...
Hey Inshart - you sure that isn't a German Shepard???
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By:
Amoebus
Date:09-Dec-15
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From CT newsletter:
"The first mortality from a predator (bobcat) occurred on May 26. As of mid-August, only four of the original 28 fawns remained. Eighteen fawns were victims of predation; seven by bear, six by bobcat, four by coyote, and one unknown. Of the six remaining mortalities: one died of natural causes before researchers arrived at the birth site; another was a twin (of whom the second fawn is still living) that, according to the UConn Pathology Lab, failed to nurse; two fawns died of unknown causes; and another two fawns were presumed to have been killed by hay cutting, as has been witnessed in previous years, because their collars ceased working the day after the fields where the fawns were routinely found in were mowed."
Pat - who said that 24 were killed by predators?
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By:
PSUhoss
Date:09-Dec-15
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Here in PA most people don't know or realize it, but bears when coming out of hibernation are a bigger concern to fawn mortality than coyotes.
With a large number of black bears looking for food after hibernation, and the birth of fawns coinciding with their wake up, means a large number of fawn kills.
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By:
Ace
Date:09-Dec-15
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Pat, I wish I could say I was surprised. The deer sightings have been decreasing (in some areas) for years, and the Fawn Recruitment numbers have been low for years (and dropping) as well.
A lot of people will argue about why the numbers are as low as they are; many believe a significant increase in predators is a big part of it. Coyote numbers are up, and bears and bobcats are now a significant presence where just a few years ago they were not.
Regardless of the reason, the facts are what they are ... and if something isn't done quickly to decrease mortality by the controllable methods, our Statewide herd is going to be in bad shape here pretty quickly.
Yet we still have replacement tags and earn-another-buck tags.
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By:
eddie c
Date:09-Dec-15
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Pat's quote:"This study was conducted to identify why the herd was crashing in the NW corner of CT."
just curious, do they expect the same percentage in the rest of the state?
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By:
Oneeye
Date:09-Dec-15
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Bobcats are so bad that trappers refuse to trap coyotes in some areas of connecticut beacuse non target bobcats getting trapped. Yet deep keeps bobcats protected.The deep clowns have gotten exactly what thwy want, a reduction of deer herd. No companits about car collisions. Not sure what they will do when no one buys a hunting permit next year and goes to another state to hunt.
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By:
keith
Date:09-Dec-15
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There has been a similar ongoing study in Michigan's UP. A couple years ago, out of 40 tagged fawns, 0 survived.
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By:
Jack Harris
Date:09-Dec-15
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wow... that is very disturbing. I have way too many yotes and bears, and never seen the deer numbers so low in NW NJ. My big old doe I took (that I regret) was dry as a bone in September, so I surmised her fawns were devoured early on.
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By:
Brotsky
Date:09-Dec-15
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They did a very similar study here on elk calves and mountain lion predation. Our lion situation was so bad that when they tranquilized a cow to do the implant a lion got her before they could land the helicopter! The study results were very similar to yours. We opened up harvest of lions and now the deer and elk herds are coming back strong. Kill the predators and the prey flourishes. It's not rocket surgery.
Here's a link to the lion story, it's an interesting read.
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Date:09-Dec-15
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They did the same study on Quantico Marine Corp base by tagging 27 fawns this past year. All 27 were killed by coyotes. The herd is actually starting to comeback after the early 2000s coyote return. My thesis is the yotes cannot smell a fawn unless humans handle it. Thus a "tagged" fawn is a death sentence.
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By:
spike78
Date:09-Dec-15
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Very good point Michael.
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By:
grizzlyadam
Date:09-Dec-15
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This study was done where I live and hunt. There are not many coyotes around at all. Bears and bobcats are becoming a really big problem here. That being said, I run multiple trail cams year round to keep track of the herd, and have not seen fawn mortality like the study suggests. I had a doe last year with three fawns, and all three of them made it, as did many other fawns. Thats more surviving fawns just on my hunting land than the entire test area. For reasons unknown to me, I don't believe the study accurately represents the fawn recruitment levels in NWCT, but if it means we can hunt bears and bobcats, I'm all for that, we need it. The biggest problem I have with deer numbers is the idiot neighbor who needs to hunt every day and fill all eight of his tags every year.
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By:
eric7553
Date:09-Dec-15
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Northern WI picture here. In seeing this pic and all of the other coyote/wolf pics around the property on a routine basis, it's hard to imagine how ANY fawn can survive! Sad
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By:
millsie
Date:09-Dec-15
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When I started hunting Barkhamsted, NW Connecticut, in '73 with a bow, you could see up to 20 deer a day on state land. never saw a coyote or bear anywhere! Now you'd by hard pressed to see 4 or 5 deer a week! But that's just my observation. Had six different bears in my yard this year in Hartland, and three coyotes.
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By:
Zbone
Date:09-Dec-15
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eric7553 - Don't let Kevin Dill see that pic, he'll come to the coyotes rescue and say it was a road kill the coyote found...8^)))
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By:
hogthief
Date:09-Dec-15
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I would be curious about how the effects of "monitoring" the fawns affected their survival. Seems high to me. We have lots of coyotes and bobcats in my area,( no bears, lions or wolves) and we don't have a deer numbers problem. interesting study.
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By:
loprofile
Date:09-Dec-15
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Any chance that predators could be attracted to vaginal transmitters?
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By:
GF
Date:09-Dec-15
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Not disagreeing, but clarifying: Vaginal transmitters don't contaminate the fawns with human scent, but the collaring certainly can.
Lions: do the math... 1 cat X 1 deer a week X 52 weeks in a year X whatever the Lion population estimate is.... Say it's 1000... That's 52k deer/year.... That's a lot of venison. Like a quarter million tags worth...
Bears: very good at finding fawns, but they have a fairly narrow window of opportunity unless you have a protracted rut due to unbalanced sex ratio and age structure.
Coyotes - more of a threat to deer when they occur in packs, which is more likely when they have access to a steady stream of roadkills. So their numbers can balloon when the deer population gets out-o-control.... Only end to that cycle is a catastrophic collapse the likes of which human hunters will not tolerate.
No idea about the dynamics with bobcats.... Seems like they ought to be limited mostly to younger fawns.
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By:
lawdy
Date:09-Dec-15
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We have a lot of bear in Northern NH and bear predation on moose calves and fawns is huge. Saw 13 bear bowhunting this past November. The coyote population took a hit last year due to mange but they are back. I will be trapping in earnest just as soon as bow season ends next week.
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By:
Kevin Dill
Date:09-Dec-15
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Hey Zbone I don't need to rescue a coyote...they do quite fine without my help. I just need my local yotes to eat an extra deer... ;-)
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By:
Gene
Date:10-Dec-15
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Pat - Please run this post on the CT site.
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By:
Tall 1
Date:10-Dec-15
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This pic was taken in CT on a property my buddy hunts. In addition to the coyotes, there are also high bear and bobcat populations here. The bobcats may be the worst offenders of fawn predation.
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By:
Zbone
Date:10-Dec-15
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Summertime photo Kev, lets see what's left of that group now. Remember, once their ate, they ain't coming back...8^)
Sorry, didn't mean to hijack thread, but now I'm done messing with Kevin and his deer vs coyotes...
Thank you, carry on...
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By:
Wayniac
Date:10-Dec-15
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Tall 1 - those are some nice looking rugs on legs
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By:
Amoebus
Date:10-Dec-15
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"The bobcats may be the worst offenders of fawn predation."
Not in the CT study (for last year), but it was close:
"The first mortality from a predator (bobcat) occurred on May 26. As of mid-August, only four of the original 28 fawns remained. Eighteen fawns were victims of predation; seven by bear, six by bobcat, four by coyote, and one unknown. Of the six remaining mortalities: one died of natural causes before researchers arrived at the birth site; another was a twin (of whom the second fawn is still living) that, according to the UConn Pathology Lab, failed to nurse; two fawns died of unknown causes; and another two fawns were presumed to have been killed by hay cutting, as has been witnessed in previous years, because their collars ceased working the day after the fields where the fawns were routinely found in were mowed."
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By:
steve
Date:10-Dec-15
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years ago in ct I didn't have to worry about a deer I shot at night now it is so bad the yots ate a deer that I waited on from 7:30 am to 9;30 now I see more and more bob cats too turkeys are on the decline too .Steve
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By:
spikehorn
Date:10-Dec-15
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I've suspected this was the case for a long time. The study also doesn't include numbers of aborted fawns by weak mothers during a hard winter ...
The state is getting what they want, no deer, but please keep buying your license, they need your $'s ...
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By:
Towhead
Date:10-Dec-15
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Another reason to trap predators
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By:
bill brown
Date:10-Dec-15
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We shot three coyotes last weekend in Illinois during the shotgun season. 200 acres. I talked to a neighbor. He shot 25 last winter and 36 the winter before. They are still as thick as ticks.
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By:
cottonwood
Date:10-Dec-15
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I wonder if this high mortality rate has to do with more doe tags and a lower average age of does. Old does have a better survival rate of their fawns than younger does do. I bet that 10-15 years ago the average age of adult does was significantly higher than now.
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By:
bb
Date:10-Dec-15
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What's even more terrifying is the idiot we call governor in this state.
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By:
RutNut_@work
Date:10-Dec-15
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Here in WI we have similar fawn mortality. We have wolves, coyotes, bears, bobcats, and Fisher. Bears take a LOT of fawns but our DNR refuses to issue more tags. If they protected the deer and turkeys in this state like they do the predators, our deer herd would be in excellent shape.
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By:
RutNut_@work
Date:10-Dec-15
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"and the bitches get bred like crazy."
This part made me laugh like I was 13. Maybe my wife is right, I may be a teenager disguised as a 44 year old man;)
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By:
David Alford
Date:10-Dec-15
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Trapping is illegal in Arizona on public land. Not just a coincidence our deer populations are way down.
