Loading
Interesting discussion - your thoughts?
QDM
Messages posted to thread:
elmer@laptop 25-Oct-15
Jack Harris 25-Oct-15
Charlie Rehor 25-Oct-15
Chief 25-Oct-15
IaHawkeye 25-Oct-15
Owl 25-Oct-15
drycreek 25-Oct-15
Buck Watcher 25-Oct-15
WBowhunt 25-Oct-15
habu john 25-Oct-15
HDE 25-Oct-15
DC 25-Oct-15
Woods Walker 25-Oct-15
WV Mountaineer 25-Oct-15
deerman406 25-Oct-15
zipper 25-Oct-15
Stekewood 25-Oct-15
patdel 25-Oct-15
SouthernILbowhunter 26-Oct-15
Bake 26-Oct-15
LINK 26-Oct-15
Matte 26-Oct-15
Tndeer 26-Oct-15
greenmountain 26-Oct-15
rooster 26-Oct-15
bfisherman11 26-Oct-15
Oakie 26-Oct-15
Julius K 26-Oct-15
1boonr 26-Oct-15
Owl 26-Oct-15
buckhammer 26-Oct-15
Two Feathers 26-Oct-15
Huntcell 26-Oct-15
Jaquomo 27-Oct-15
LBshooter 27-Oct-15
Buck-man 27-Oct-15
Genesis 27-Oct-15
JayG@work 27-Oct-15
Bake 27-Oct-15
loprofile 27-Oct-15
Ollie 27-Oct-15
JRW 27-Oct-15
milnrick 27-Oct-15
hogthief 27-Oct-15
DonVathome 27-Oct-15
southernbeagle 28-Oct-15
nutritionist 29-Oct-15
t-roy 29-Oct-15
Jeff Durnell 30-Oct-15
White Falcon 30-Oct-15
White Falcon 30-Oct-15
White Falcon 30-Oct-15
Mad Trapper 30-Oct-15
scentman 30-Oct-15
XMan 30-Oct-15
MichaelArnette 30-Oct-15
Waterlooboy 31-Oct-15
Thornton 31-Oct-15
cityhunter 31-Oct-15


Date:25-Oct-15

Tell them about the big buck. Let some of the small ones live for another year or 2.

Date:25-Oct-15

I would let them know the potential, show them pictures, past kills, etc. A rising tide floats all boats and if you bring them along to your way of thinking, it's a win/win for all. It's not for everyone though - they may not embrace the notion..

Date:25-Oct-15

To get big whitetails consistently human control is mandatory or all else is futile. This means no guns (except does), and passing deer until they reach the desired age class. This is not a rule I make up but a reality of managing deer. It's about the humans!

Last year the landowner I hunt with passed a 150 inch deer twice and I passed him once and then the neighbor shot him as his biggest deer to date! Certainly can't control the neighbors. Where I hunt in SE Iowa the collective neighbors meet and compare trail cam pics and decide what deer to pass. A luxury of owning big ground and discipline!

Disclaimer: This is not for everyone and should not be! Shoot em up guys!

By: Chief
Date:25-Oct-15

Don't tell them. If you do, they'll hold out for the big one until the last couple days and shoot a small one anyway. It just puts more pressure on the big.

Date:25-Oct-15

As you being from RI and only getting a tag in Iowa every 3-4 years, I'm curious as how you are able to keep tabs on neighbor meetings, size of deer,cams ,etc. Isn't the computer wonderful!

By: Owl
Date:25-Oct-15

The number of buck tags may have relevance in the paradigm. In a 1 buck tag area, I'd flap my gums. Couldn't hurt the math.

Date:25-Oct-15

drycreek's embedded Photo

In my piece of the world, if you show your big buck pics around too much, somebody's cousin will be poaching on your place. :)

Discipline is what most folks lack. The discipline to pass on a young deer no matter what weapon you hold is the key to having better bucks. Now, this not being the midwest, we are not ever gonna see enough 150s to pass one, but there are some good bucks being killed in East Texas since the antler restrictions were implemented a few years ago. 140 to 160 in. bucks ain't exactly common, but more are being killed every year, proving ( to me at least ) that age is THE big factor in antler growth. The only problem I have with it is bucks that won't make the inside spread of 13" and are obviously mature are off limits unless you are on the state's MLDP program. There are more of them than you might think.

Date:25-Oct-15

I NEVER tell my neighbors about the bucks I see/shoot. They may burn my stands down.

Date:25-Oct-15

You can tell folks around me. Poaching is non stop. They are poaching small bucks as well. It's ridiculous.

Date:25-Oct-15

Working with people is better in my mind. Showing them potential bucks in the area could be your ticket to more mature bucks in the future.

By: HDE
Date:25-Oct-15

People pass on small bucks because they want to, not because they have to.

Knowledge of a big buck in the area would have little effect on meat hunters, otherwise they wouldn't be willing to shoot small ones. Normally, there are good bucks hanging around where the one big one is too, yet some hunters still mangae to shoot small ones instead.

By: DC
Date:25-Oct-15

(In my piece of the world, if you show your big buck pics around too much, somebody's cousin will be poaching on your place.)

Yeah, I tell no one. Not even club members.

On a second thought. If you can get the right group of people in a club / lease setting to contribute to doing the right things in a management program and put everyone to work breaking a sweat getting it done then you have a better chance of changing minds.

Get them to take soil samples and lime a field by hand. Fertilize properly and keep the fields and right of ways mowed and bush hog them all summer long. Maintaining a year around food source that is preferred and beneficial to the herd. Assign them work that must be done before they can hunt. Then set up rules for everyone to follow from the President on down with set fines and possible membership privileges revoked. They must feel that everyone is contributing toward a better future of opportunity or they will just do what they have always done and just shoot.

I worked hard with a club for years getting this to happen and everyone was happy with the results. They were seeing and killing better dear than ever. 130 to 140 and an occasional 150 class being the possibilities. Even one 160 class.

I left the club for several years and then returned back to the club this year only to see the rules were still in force but the efforts toward management goals had changed and the results were showing in the harvest records and the attitude now is that a 125 class is as good as it gets.

This leaves the thought of two things. Someone must be poaching all of our deer because we us to kill bigger deer and see more, after all someone's tree stand and scout camera was stole. (Which is proof) OR What was working before is now not working because the work to get it done is no longer being done. (?)

Date:25-Oct-15

Well if those other hunters only get to hunt a handful of days a season, then I don't think it'll make much difference. Many of them shoot what offers them a decent shot because that may be the only opportunity they may have. Not everyone who hunts can hunt every weekend of the season or more.

Date:25-Oct-15

You won't make a poacher stop with laws. Just like you won't make a meat hunter stop shooting small deer. He isn't after the antlers. If your neighbors are shooting the deer they want, why would telling and showing them how great our QDM program is working is going to make them stop. I'm betting they understand the notion. Yet, the trophy they take from their hunt doesn't have to be graced with big antlers.

Everyone that hunts isn't striving to achieve a wall full of record book bucks. Some want the thrill of getting a deer. To guys that get to live the life that may seem childish or immature. To a guy that gets a half dozen days a year to hunt, this is his goal. He isn't going to give up his goals to make yours easier. Nor should he.

I say buy more land and/or, leave the neighbors alone. Telling them will have no effect as he is already doing what he wants. God Bless

Date:25-Oct-15

I try to keep it quiet. Too many idiots out there and they end up shooting them at night or with a rifle in the bow only area I hunt. I try and pass some bucks in the gun area I hunt but someone almost always shoots them when they are 100-110" 3.5 year old. I myself end up shooting a lot of those bucks with the bow, as I know once gun season rolls around someone else will(almost always). Its funny if the buck makes it past 3.5 and gets into that 4th year than they become hard to kill even by the guys poaching. In my bow only area most of the neighbors let small bucks walk as well so we have a better chance. The problem is when people start talking about the big bucks they see in this area, some idiot ends up poaching them. Loose lips sink ships and big bucks. Shawn

By: zipper
Date:25-Oct-15

When you have a Giant on your property button up. Run Silent Run Deep.

Date:25-Oct-15

I don't really think it would make any difference what you tell them. If it's like much of the places I've hunted in PA, they will do what they're gonna do anyway. I would keep it quiet so that the shady characters don't slip on to your place when you're not around.

By: patdel
Date:25-Oct-15

I agree with Zipper.

Date:26-Oct-15

I keep quiet, I don't talk anything about deer hunting other than family members and a close friend. All it does is lead to guys trying to lease, poach, and move in on you. Everyone I know shows off cam pictures, kill pics, drives around town with the deer in the truck, enters contests, etc, etc, if you like your spot and the area around, keep your mouth shut. And when you take your deer to have I mounted....ask the taxidermist to keep it quiet. I shot a 173" a couple of years ago, and didn't think to ask to him keep it quiet, he told everyone and crazy people were trying to lease and get permission all around me. I couldn't believe it, even had a friend trying to weasel in on me. So lesson learned, keep your trap shut

By: Bake
Date:26-Oct-15

For me, it would depend on the neighbor. Let's face it, some people are open-minded and some are close-minded regarding deer and nature. (I won't get deeper than that)

People still believe "once a spike always a spike", or that culling "inferior"-racked deer improves genetics

And you can't change their mind, no matter what.

If I had an open-minded neighbor willing to consider the possibility that passing immature bucks can result in more bigger bucks. . . I'd share the pics and my philosophy

If I had a close-minded neighbor that wouldn't consider such a possibility, I wouldn't share the pics.

And If I had a neighbor (open or close minded), that I thought might trespass or poach the buck . . . I wouldn't share pics

By: LINK
Date:26-Oct-15

I would say it might matter on whose property is the big buck spending most of his time. If he's bedding on me and only leaving after dark I might tell. However I almost if not always error on the side of keeping my mouth shut about big animals.

By: Matte
Date:26-Oct-15

I would invite the neighbor to come hunt with me and show him if done right the possibilities. If it did not work out oh well I tried.

By: Tndeer
Date:26-Oct-15

Great question Pat. I have struggled with this as well. I have some land that I have managed over the past five years. Before I took over we had several distant family members that hunted the land and shot just about everything. When I took over management, I told everyone the management plan and got considerable pushback. Most said "we will never have big bucks. If we don't shoot deer the neighbors will shoot them, so we might as well".

Long tory short, each year the age and size of our bucks has improved and this year we have two bucks on the property that are considerable larger than anything we have seen over the past five year. Year after year I share pictures simply so they can see the progress we have made. Although they have not acknowledged that things are improving, its hard to argue with the results we have seen.

I have thought about sharing these pictures with our neighbors but decided not to. I think it would just cause them to spend more time in the stand and I doubt they have the will power to let smaller bucks pass by. While I can enforce the management policy on my property, I have no control over neighbors so I've decided not to inspire them.

Date:26-Oct-15

From my frame of reference it makes little difference. I hunt for a legal buck or a legal doe. I like big antlers but I also like meat. Last winter was tough so I suspect there will be few large bucks taken in my neck of the woods.

Date:26-Oct-15

In my mind, if the neighbors are experienced hunters,they should know that at least the possibility of bigger bucks is there. If they spend any kind of time in the area they probably have seen bigger deer than those they shoot just driving around. My guess is that they must be happy with the size deer they are killing and haven't the patience to let the smaller bucks walk in hope of killing something bigger. A bird in the hand.....

Date:26-Oct-15

I am an out of state land owner so I don't tell anyone because I don't want to invite trespassing. I have a good relationship with my immediate neighbors and so far one in particular (a friend) helps keep tabs on things.

For that I allow him, his wife and daughter to cut across a part of my place to get to his mother in laws place. I bought the land from her. His wife is her daughter and I enjoy talking to them about what they used my place for over the years. I have owned this place for 15 years and this relationship has worked.

My friend/neighbor is basically just a gun hunter. We share a little after the season but I am tight lipped during the season. I am not so worried about him as other family or neighbors he might accidentally slip to.

Just yesterday I got a call from another neighbor who shot a doe and was not sure if it got on to my place. In the winter I let his kid sled on my hill. In discussion I discovered he is hunting a patch of woods adjacent to one of my food plots (another neighbors woods). That is fine obviously, and I was grateful he called. Just eye opening because I did not think anyone else was bowhunting. I don't shoot does and if he did OK. Just hope it was not one I have had around a long time but if it is, no issue because they are not my deer.

In the end I believe what happens will happen and we do all we can to put ourselves in the best position to harvest a trophy buck (about all I hunt for). Still every year you hear stories about the kid that harvested a 150 class buck. I say good for him.

I don't invite trouble so I keep things mostly to myself.

Bill

By: Oakie
Date:26-Oct-15

Never ever tell. You'll have them all over your place. They'll break every law on the books in the process of destroying everything you've done. They most likely still won't kill the good deer, but they'll run everything off and then tell you you're a liar for saying there's good deer. They'll do worse damage to all the other deer than they're already doing. Jaded, maybe, but just the nature of the world we live in.

Date:26-Oct-15

I like to keep quiet myself...

By: 1boonr
Date:26-Oct-15

i don't tell anybody anything that might make them hunt when they would rather be watching football. i figure, since i need no outside encouragement than they shouldn't either. they will still shoot small bucks and tell everybody about the giant that you showed them putting more pressure on the area.

By: Owl
Date:26-Oct-15

If the point or the query is to determine which better serves QDM, influencing folks to hold out is the only option that may increase buck age.

Date:26-Oct-15

loose lips get big bucks killed

Date:26-Oct-15

The land owner behind me just gave me permission to bowhunt his land with the restriction of a 8 pt buck or better or a doe. He told me about the other land owners around the area doing QDMA with the objective of growing older deer. They are also doing food plots. Their hard work and letting young bucks walk is paying off. There are more mature bucks in the neighborhood. He told me about some of the big bucks he's seen and pictures of the one his neighbor just shot - a book buck, so I am encouraged.

Me, if I had a big buck on my property I don't think I would talk too much about it. I do have a monster rub in my cedar swamp and I'm looking forward to a run in with the buck that made it.

Date:26-Oct-15

" Where I hunt in SE Iowa ...." Charlie did you mean NE corner last iowa tag you hunted unit 9 NE corner?

Date:27-Oct-15

"Quality" is relative and has different meaning to everyone with respect to hunting.

Lots of people absolutely can't let a legal animal walk. Its a quality animal by their standards. Would they hold out if they knew a big one was around? Maybe, maybe not.

Might there be temptation for someone in their circle to do something illegal to kill it? Again, maybe, maybe not.

But unless everybody in the area agrees to practice some form of selective hunting and poaching can be controlled, I'd shut the hell up and let whatever happens, happen. Otherwise you're just advertising to that 1% of bad apples.

Date:27-Oct-15

Depends on your wants, I would rather put meat in the freezer vs sitting around all season and never taking a deer. Horn porn is just that. In the old days before QDM a big buck was something unique, nowadays it's no big deal because there are plenty around. When someone comes up with recipe for eating horns and it taste as good as back straps then I might hold out for bigger horns.

Date:27-Oct-15

2 easy fixes. Have hunting skip a season or Cut back on archery , crossbow , shotgun ,muzzleloader,handgun,rifle, spear and what ever else to a shorter season and dates.

Date:27-Oct-15

"Is it better to let the neighbors know there is a giant around so they pass the small bucks and focus on that big buck?"

No way I tell them,because with no skin in the game they will tell the next person and the next and your place may become the "driving while drinking route" just to get a peek

If they aren't sold on the principle then one giant won't change it.In fact the response will some actually telling you they have passed the deer a couple of years back as if they had a hand in its development.

However,I would start gathering pics with the other like minded owner and develop a 2 on 1 strategy to educate others to add total land under management.

In time, the threshold of land acreage will be met and then sharing all intel would be more productive imo.

Date:27-Oct-15

I have a little chunk of land and I have made it a point to not tell anyone anything. I even try to not let them know that I put in food plots. Otherwise I will have poachers all over my land. It only takes about 10 minutes to put on a push across my property. I let them know that I have game cameras all over, and that I will handle the poachers on my own. The legal system up here doesn't work.. If you are from here and have one of the original peoples last names, you can get away with anything. I let them know that I will take care of problems as they arise... As far as deer, the folks around here shoot anything that moves. If I showed them pictures of deer that were small and needed a couple years to get bigger, I would have people camped out on my borders, waiting for them to cross out of my property. Good luck out there, Jay

By: Bake
Date:27-Oct-15

Date:27-Oct-15

It is an interesting subject - part of me would rather hear about my neighbor killing a small buck than hearing he had killed a mature monster.

By: Ollie
Date:27-Oct-15

Before I would spill the beans on seeing a jumbo-sized buck, I would ask myself, "to what extent does my neighbor share information with me?" Some of my neighbors are very helpful and good in sharing information. I respond in kind. On the other hand I have a neighbor or two that hunts and are somewhat guarded in any information they give me. I tend to be reluctant to give them too much info. Does the neighbor have a habit of hunting very close to property lines?

By: JRW
Date:27-Oct-15

I think it's better to hunt the legal and ethical way that makes you happy and let everyone else do the same.

Date:27-Oct-15

This is a very interesting thread, thanks for starting it.

I see the advantages and disadvantages to both sides of the question, and think that timing when the discussion takes place is critical. I hunted on military bases for several years (TX and SC) and on a ‘S. TX deer lease’ from 08-13 when the ranch transitioned to ‘gun only’. I learned a lot from both experiences.

Hunting the military bases taught me that keeping quiet about big buck sightings was probably the wisest choice, the only time the presence of a big buck was openly discussed was AFTER the season or when it was laid on the check table for aging and weighing. Otherwise other hunters would be all over the place trying to fill a tag with a wall hanger as soon as word got out.

Lease hunting was a totally different story, we’d share photos and discuss what we were seeing freely. Partly because we were only able to take bucks older than 5 ½, unless told otherwise by the ranch owner. The lease experience taught me that time is a very important ally when it comes to seeing big antlered (and bodied) deer. To me it seemed almost as crucial as genetics and nutrition.

I’ve talked with several wildlife biologists over the years about antler development. While they were all based affiliated with TX deer herds, each biologist held the belief that an ‘average whitetail buck’ with ‘average genetics’ has the capacity to develop into at least a 125-130 class buck IF he’s allowed to reach 4 ½ years of more in age. I the theory shared by those biologists as well as the Parks and Wildlife folks may be part of the decision for the antler restrictions currently experienced in many Texas counties – as Drycreek mentioned, the restriction on size appears to be instrumental in seeing increased frequency of seeing bigger antlered bucks coming thru check stations and into deer processors.

Millie and I are entering our 2nd deer season at our little farm in TN and have had several ‘deer-oriented’ conversations with our neighbors; several have said they’d like to see bigger antlered deer roaming their woods but don’t think that it’s possible. We’ve explained that they can’t get big if they die young and have talked about letting the younger bucks walk for a season or two in order for to see if the ‘age’ theory can gain a foot hold with them – hopefully it does.

The neighbors were interested in the theory and agreed to put it to a test; this year they’ve told their grandson to concentrate on taking a few does and to leave bucks alone. That will give a certain 3½ year old 9 point that took up residence in our East pasture and identified as a ‘no kill’ deer for our places. Hopefully the bigger buck will make it through this season and the next and the 1 and 2 year olds will get a chance to start adding weight and antler. Only time will tell.

Date:27-Oct-15

I make sure that everyone knows about the monster bucks on the property 5 miles down the road. There are absolutely 0 bucks on my place.

Date:27-Oct-15

Yikes that is tough. I would say keep it quite

Date:28-Oct-15

"That last point turned the conversation into a discussion on this question:

Is it better to keep a big buck quiet (which means the neighbors tag out quickly on a little buck)?

or

Is it better to let the neighbors know there is a giant around so they pass the small bucks and focus on that big buck?"

If you have neighbors like I do they will shoot them all anyway, seasons, tags, etc. mean nothing to them. Brown is down, and they will hunt every day of the season and poach all year.

Anyone and his buddy gets 7 tags a year, it don't take long to thin them out!

Date:29-Oct-15

I don't tell them anything....and i don't even tell them that they scare tons of these big bucks past my stand as they stomp around and drive all over. Thanks neighbors for sending the big boys scurrying to the sanctuary.

Yes, they shoot a few decent bucks here and there but it's all a game of odds. The longer they hunt, the higher the odds i get a big buck.

By: t-roy
Date:29-Oct-15

I have a little different take on it. I will share pics of the good younger bucks with potential and try & persuade the neighbors to lay off these deer in hopes of them getting a chance to turn into a possible monster. These 2-3 year olds are pretty visible at this age & are easier to kill. If they make it till 4+, usually they are much, much tougher to kill even if you know they are around.

Everyone runs cams around here, so the chances of keeping things a secret are pretty slim, however, there is no good reason to tell everything you know either.

Date:30-Oct-15

Yeah, try to tell me what animals I should pursue and why. Good luck with THAT. Geeze, some people's kids.

Date:30-Oct-15

White Falcon's embedded Photo

13 law works! This guy last year was about 11". He has two sons this year that look just like he did last year.

Date:30-Oct-15

One of his sons.

Date:30-Oct-15

White Falcon's embedded Photo

One of his sons.

Date:30-Oct-15

I know nothing. If I were to tell the neighbors, they would still shoot the small bucks and then be on the lookout for the good one and if they saw him, they would shoot him too.

Date:30-Oct-15

I can't tell you... told my neighbors about this site now I have to watch what I say...I've already said too much! :o)

By: XMan
Date:30-Oct-15

I wouldn't tell anyone about a big buck being on my place or places I hunt. It's an invitation to a conflict down the line. I would take a totally different tact and show them a deer you have a history with at home in CT and how it grew year to year. Mention you want to do the same on this other prop and would they consider doing the same to up the age structure on the deer. Shoot a doe before a yearling buck and wait on a mature buck.

Date:30-Oct-15

I wouldn't tell them about any bucks you have seen...I'd tell them what you are passing up. They will start to think twice if they know the neighbor isn't going to shoot said 2 or 3 year old buck. And all this stuff about QWDM is only raising land prices and cutting access...I used to be a total fan but now I think the whole act of farming deer may have a bad side as well as the old tradition of shooting anything that moves. Not that it's a bad thing to pass up immature deer just that we have to be careful the effect it has on our sport.

Date:31-Oct-15

What makes you so sure the neighbor doesn't already know?

Date:31-Oct-15

I would not tell anybody about a large buck. They will just poach it and label your property as a hideout for larger bucks than they see

Date:31-Oct-15

3 can keep a secret if two are dead


Bowsite.com DeerBuilder on FacebookYouTube Channel Contact DeerBuilder
Registration
Facebook Page
YouTube Channel
Advertise
Bowsite.com
Copyright © 2012 Bowsite.com. No duplication without prior consent.