| Same buck or father and son? |
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By:
Buckstopper
Date:20-Jul-14
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I took this photo on 16 July 2008.
The second photo was taken 12 July 2014 in the same field.
The original buck was not been seen since 2009, until now?
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By:
Buckstopper
Date:20-Jul-14
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Second photo.
Some things to consider.
The winter of 2007-2008 was far easier than this past winter.
If it is the same buck he has to be over 10 years old accounting for the regression of the rack?
The small bump on the main beam between the brow and burr on the left beam and a small sticker point coming up of the drop tine just off the burr on both bucks.
Are non-typical traits hereditary?
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By:
spike buck
Date:20-Jul-14
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Different buck, same genetics.
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By:
Pyrannah
Date:20-Jul-14
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Does fhe right ear of second deer have a cut in it?
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By:
Medicinemann
Date:20-Jul-14
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If the older photo had the cut ear, and the newer did not, you could conclude that they are different deer. Since it is the other way around, it isn't quite as helpful.
In Pat's recent deer aging contest, it really illustrated that most of us tend to underestimate the age of deer....but a ten year old deer sure seems like a stretch (unless it is in a pen, and even then, that sure seems like a really old deer).
I agree with spike buck.....different buck, same gene pool. It would be helpful to see the entire body of both animals.....any other photos?
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By:
toehead
Date:20-Jul-14
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They kill 10 year old deer every year at the MCAAp draw hunts.
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By:
Buckstopper
Date:20-Jul-14
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A full body shot of the 2008 deer but not at a great angle.
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By:
Buckstopper
Date:20-Jul-14
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A full body shot of the 2014 deer.
You can see it is an older deer.
This field is monitored every year. It is in a non hunting zone within the city limits of Ottawa Ontario ten minutes from my home so a ten plus year old deer is not out of the question.
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By:
Pyrannah
Date:20-Jul-14
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"If the older photo had the cut ear, and the newer did not, you could conclude that they are different deer. Since it is the other way around, it isn't quite as helpful."
Good point!
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By:
Buckstopper
Date:20-Jul-14
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I found another picture of the 2008 buck at a bit better angle for comparison. Although a bit fuzzy as it was taken after sunset.
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By:
DTala
Date:20-Jul-14
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most definitly NOT the same deer, numbers(age) don't add up.
first deer is four+ and second deer is NOT ten+
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By:
KJC
Date:20-Jul-14
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I'm gonna guess no, but only because of the difference in the throat patch.
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By:
TJS
Date:20-Jul-14
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If you have a pic of the 2014 buck with his left ear out look to see if he has the same ear split in the top edge as the 08 pic. I he doesn't he's for sure not the same deer.
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By:
LUNG$HOT
Date:20-Jul-14
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I agree, different buck same genetics. Brow tines are exact opposite in the photos. Both are very cool bucks, great pics.
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By:
Candor
Date:20-Jul-14
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I killed a buck several years ago that was 11+ years old. We had a pic of him from when he was ~4.5 yrs old and then I killed him 7 years later. He had a drop tine when he was 4, but when I killed him that drop tine had become a split tine coming off the back side of the main beam at an angle.
I wouldn't dismiss that it could be the same deer.
I consider myself decent at aging deer on the hoof until they are 6+. Once they hit that range I cannot distinguish ages. A mature deer carries substantial muscle mass on their hams and neck. A very old deer can be confused with a young deer because of deterioration in muscle mass and a smaller neck and smaller hams.
When I killed the buck that was ~11.5 yrs old he was pretty sorry looking (I killed him in January). We had one picture of him from early October and he wasn't too dissimilar looking from your 2014 buck - thin neck, pot belly, sway back.
It will be interesting if you can get some more pics of your 2014 buck on how his right side shapes up.
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By:
Westbound
Date:20-Jul-14
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The 2014 buck has a sway back so he is old no doubt.
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By:
Bake
Date:21-Jul-14
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I think they're the same deer. Just by the photos
Summer pics can fool you as to age, maybe in 2008 he wasn't as old as you think ?
In 2012 I had pics in the summer of a buck with a messed up rack. I was confident from the summer pics that he was an old old deer. Huge belly, seemed to have a sway back, etc.
But I never got clear fall pics of him, he just wasn't around in the fall much.
I then got summer pics of the same deer in 2013, and a multitude of fall pics. Same deal, summer pics suggested an old deer, fall pics were a different story. Showed a much trimmer deer. Also showed me some different rack angles, and I was able to conclude that he was a lot younger than I thought, cause I was able to match his pics to some pics of a skinny little young deer in 2011.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if it were the exact same deer in your pics
Bake
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By:
TurkeyFoot
Date:21-Jul-14
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From my experience if it looks like the same deer in pictures, it is probably the same deer. This is from the experience of many pictures and then finally getting your hands on the horns. One then can go back and identify many more pictures that were that deer in my experience.
I think it is the same deer, 7 years on unpressured ground is completely acceptable.
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By:
Eagle
Date:21-Jul-14
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Looking at the size and angle of the pedicles, they are different deer.
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By:
M.Pauls
Date:21-Jul-14
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I agree with turkeyfoot. On a side note is it just me or does the deer in these pics suffer from really small head syndrome???? Beautiful deer either way!
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By:
Woodswise work
Date:21-Jul-14
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I don't think it's the same deer and I don't think the abnormality on the 2014 picture is the result of genetics. To me, it is fairly obvious that the 2014 deer has damaged his beam during growth. It looks like he knocked the end of it off early on and the resulting growth was an abnormal brow type growth growing up and an abnormal main beam type growth growing down and out. I have seen and killed quite a few deer with damage to their antlers during growth and this looks exactly like that to me. If you are able to get your hands on the rack or at least the sheds I think you would see that it's obviously from damage. The older picture looks more like a genetic abnormality to me. All this is purely conjecture of course and as Pat's recent feature on aging deer proves, none of us has any clue how old either of those deer really are.
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By:
LBshooter
Date:21-Jul-14
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Different deer.
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Date:21-Jul-14
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JMHO different deer. I think the deer in the first pic is older than the deer in the second pic by looking at his face. Also the deer in the first pic has a lot bigger bases than the deer in the second pic and the deer in the first pic his pedicals that more tighter to his skull unlike the deer in the second pic. From what I've always seen the deers bases when going downhill won't get smaller like what this one has supposedly done nor will he change the way his antlers grow from his head.
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By:
Buckstopper
Date:22-Jul-14
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Thanks for all the interesting responses.
I will try to keep track of this buck through velvet shedding.
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By:
XMan
Date:23-Jul-14
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Not the same deer , throat patch is different....
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By:
CurveBow
Date:23-Jul-14
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Same deer, past his prime. Personally, I doubt that the non typical tine would be that similar in an offspring.
>>>>-------->
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By:
kellyharris
Date:23-Jul-14
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Same buck look at hair on right ear
